doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester Mod 42 upgrade

I am hoping one of the Winchester model 42 experts can help me with information on my 42. I did some trading about 3 years ago and ended up with this gun. I was told it had been upgraded by Winchester and had the vent rib barrel installed. but I did not put much weight in this. I pulled it from the safe the other day and decided to try and find out what I could. It appears it was made about 1943.After that I did not find out much. I know there was a 42 book written but the price is just to high to justify buying it. This brings me to this point. Here are pictures any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance, Phil









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Winchester subcontracted with Simmons Gun Works, Olathe Kansas and Moneymaker in Omaha Nebraska for some rib installations. The presence of proof marks on the receiver and barrel extension indicate that if this was not done by the Winchester plant it was done by an authorized Winchester sub contractor. I have never seen a post and donut rib on a Simmons gun so I'm pretty sure it was either done by Moneymaker or Winchester. The absence of the duck bill on the receiver suggests it is a Moneymaker rib however Simmons used this type of transition to the receiver also.

Thanks for the information. Do you know if there are records from Winchester or Moneymaker available?

Phillip-if this helps you out- just as Roger Rule detailed all the stamping and serifs changes in the older M70 from 1936 to 1963-- are beware the "bogus Super Grades" being foisted off to the unknowning public- ditto on any Winchester- look closely at the serial number and the serif point shapes of the 1 and also the last number- see anything different between the stampings on the receiver and those of the mating barrel and magazine tube extension?? I do. This M42 is all dolled up, but it ain't original-IMO. If you don't mind me asking, as I have no dog in the ring here (I love Model 12's but not Model 42's, sorry)what is the initial asking price? RWTF

FWIW, I have an older 870 Remington Wingmaster made up into a very nice trap gun that sports among other custom work a Winchester type doughnut w/post rib. The treatment [rib's top finish & the receiver milling] appears identical to that shown on your 42. The rib is clearly marked "Simmons Gun Specialties .... Kansas" on it's left side.

If it were an aftermarket upgrade by Simmons the rib would be marked as a Simmons rib. RTF Obviously the gun was repolished prior to reblueing after the rib was installed which accounts for the stretched stampings and Phillip acknowledges it was an upgrade and most likely subbed out to Simmons or Moneymaker to do the work. Its nice gun but as Phillip already knows it is not original, however, simmons guns are picking up some interest as of late due to the scarcity of originals.

Phillip you might contact the people at Cody to see if they have any of the old Winchester records.

The gun does have the offset proof marks on the receiver. Did the aftermarket folks restamp the proof marks? I always thought that the offset proof indicated a factory gun, but in this case, the serial number places the gun too early for an original vent rib. I'm guessing a factory re-do.

You might try Pauline Muerrle (http://www.paulinemuerrle.com) to see if she might have records on the gun

Thanks for the feedback so far, I am open to all information. Half the fun in trading guns is the knowledge you gain along the way. I will send Pauline an email. The gun is pretty nice, and it is what it is. I would love to learn as much as I can on who may have done the upgrade. Please continue with your information.

[quote=Run With The Fox..... look closely at the serial number and the serif point shapes of the 1 and also the last number- see anything different between the stampings on the receiver and those of the mating barrel and magazine tube extension?? I do. .... RWTF [/quote]

The ser#'s all look a bit different because they've all been gone over w/ hammer & chisel to sharpen them up somewhat.
I believe they are the original (matching) numbers,,but have been recut. Add to that the blurring done afterwards from the buffer.

The lettering on the left side of the bbl,,at least the portion I can see clearly that says ' 42-410 3IN. CHAM.' has been recut.
The 'MOD' choke marking is recut.

The proof marks look punched 'through the (re)blue' which is appropriate. The strikes are double and triple hits for each mark,,something you don't see very often on factory guns, but it's not unknown.

It's not rare to find a W/P proof mark stamp on a bench other than one at Big Red. Just make one.

Not a simple matter to install VR though.
I don't know if the contractors proofed (and stamped) the bbls after installation or that was done back at New Haven. I'd guess the latter. But I'm not a good guesser.

Just some observations.
Just had my '38 mfg skeet 42 out.

Looks like a nice shotgun,,what 42 isn't?
Would make a great starting point for an engraved upgrade

Phil
Based on the s/n being buffed, I'd suspect it was upgraded. But can't be sure one way or the other. Eubanks, in Idaho has put donutpost ribs on and Simmons now offers them. The proof cartouche' has been added afterward for years.

If anyone wants one of the proof stamps, they can be had in a few days.