doublegunshop.com - home Forums The truth about the left.

That goes for both of us, doc.

Only I went from "skeptic" to "believer" in no time.

Anyone with morals and a conscience can't work in the news media for long.

So I went to an industry that pays real money for transparent lies.

(and got rich doing it)

Ed, I grant you that both Europe and America were in a bad way during the 1930's. But to suggest Europeans had a "long history expecting their leaders to provide for them" is just not accurate. Yes, socialism existed then but had for just 20 years or so in any kind of meaningful way, anywhere! Most of Europe had for the previous 150 years (recent history) been ruled by autocratic royalty with various degrees of grudgingly tolerated attempts at democratic institutions. My point is that the totalitarian aspects of the fascist regimes that sprang up in the 1930's were just other versions of autocratic governments that told citizens what to do. They had been living with this type of authoritarianism for centuries.

Not true for America. Even if I accept your view of Lincoln, that is a brief hiccough in time. You correctly acknowledge the cult of individualism that is at the heart of the American experiment. And you correctly point out the problem in going down the road of state dependence. The susceptibility for political opportunists to grab power.

However, it is far more likely a grab for power is forming from the left, from Obama and his ilk, than the Tea Party and those on the right, who make as their rallying cry, a demand to return to that society of individuals and an abandonment of collectivism.

Look how many liberals who support a "Orwellian style Police State"

canvas: let me clarify:

- "Europeans expecting there leaders to take care of them", goes back to the feudal system, where the lords of the manors took care of their vassals. the vassals, of course, gave up most of their rights in exchange for that care. those rights included, the right to hunt, the right to practice ones religion and the right to own land. these are three of the major reasons why many of our European ancestors came here to begin with.

- the reign of Lincoln the usurper, was not "a brief hiccough in time". it was the beginning of the fundamental change in the relationship of the states to the central federal government, which then evolved in the twentieth century, to a fundamental change in the relationship of individuals to the central federal government...obamacare is a major step in the further evolution of the relationship of the individual to the central government.

- in our democratic republic, power hungry, political opportunist from either the right or the left, will take advantage of the discontent of consumer voters and promise them what ever they want and not just what they need, in order to win elections.

I'm not sure if any power grab will come from left or right. My guess is that revolt will rise from both sides, commoners as ourselves on left and right, against current Big Business shenanigans. Even Jack Welch seems to be recanting: "Shareholder value is the dumbest thing in the world."

There's a growing suspicion that "capitalism" is really broken because the big guys have put wealth accumulation ahead of the greater good. Self-interest shoving of corporate managers, shareholders and quick-buck artists ahead of the long-term interests of companies can only lead to chaos.

The big boys have no need for innovation and job creation when they're creaming it with manipulation and stock-market speculation. I don't know whether conservatives or liberals will wise up to it first but the party that does will have an anchor on governance for a long time.

The "Greater good" is a socialist concept.

Anyone here has the capacity to start their own business....a business is started to make the people putting the money and hard workto get it going to make a profit. They didn't risk their capital and waste their time to help someone who didn't put any real effort or risk anything of their own.

Employees are paid a fair wage in exchange for their time....The Employer didn't adopt them and its not their problem if their wife isn't giving them any..or if their daughter is sleeping with everyone in town.

Again like I stated...I don't see any Liberals putting THEIR money into projects that will cost them their savings in the end just to help someone lazier or dumber than they are. But they are real quick to demand others put their money to that goal.

THey talk a big game..but when it comes to put up or shut up...the excuses start flowing and in the end the average Liberal here in the USA is the cheapest tightwad on the planet. THey are as resistant to spend a dime of their own money but are exceptionally generous with money stolen, taxed, ripped off or otherwise taken unwillingly off the productive members of society...to give to the lazy and the dumb who are told look what "I" did for you....when in fact it wasn't THEIR money...it was someone elses money. Nearly always someone who didn't want it going to the lazy and the dumb.

It is a socialist concept and a Christian precept, too. The Bible is clear on it.

And you're right: "anyone here" has the capacity to start their own business. But not everyone is here nor does everyone have the ability.

Governments and political parties are there to represent everyone. Some consider taxes as theft, others say taxes pay for civilization.

Republican consensus on this issue will decide whether the US remains a great nation. I'm betting on the Republican ethos.

If someones not here...then its not our problem...they need to deal with their own government.

As far as anyone has the ability to start their own business....they do....how big they can start is a function of how much they have... many businesses are started out on a shoestring. Success is all about making the right choices and business decisions....and that applies as much to the rich as it does to the poor. Do it right and you succeed...do it wrong and you fail.

Being lazy isn't a valid excuse....if they want to , then do it...if they don't they need to stop whining about it.

Most countries don't rely on huge corporations to employ everyone.....many of them the majority are self employed or are small businesses....Italy is one exaple I know the best.

king: a little history:

the original European funded colonies in this new world were started by entrepreneur capitalist. they came here mostly from France, Spain, Portugal and of course England, which included the subjugated kingdoms of Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

the colonies flourished under a plantation based entrepreneur system. later, the ever westward bound fledgling United States also flourished, with the acquiring of wealth via hard work and capital investment. the crisis of 1860 was a show down between the original plantation based capitalist of the south east and the upstart manufacturing based capitalist of the north east. the manufacturing capitalist prevailed, just in time to take advantage of the full economic impact of the industrial revolution.

our manufacturing based capitalist economy did quite well until the 1990's, when it was decided to give up our manufacturing based economy and replace it with a service based economy. a strong capitalist economic system is based on a balanced production of goods and services. since the late 1990's our economy has been out of balance...ie: not enough hard goods are being produced for profit in this country.

now, instead of revitalizing our manufacturing base, in order to bring our economy back into balance, our leaders are attempting to fund our economic growth via a combination of government employment and deficit financing...the ability to create wealth via the printing press is a wonderful thing, for a while. but, once the world will no longer accept our paper as legal tender...then its all over and down the economic crapper we go...

King,
and "revolt" will come due to the over expansion of the government in the last 5 years.More people in this country fear the government (NOT Big Business)then terrorism.
Your socialist view of capitalism is not supported by anyone here except the left wing radicals-Bernie Sanders types.

"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
Thomas Jefferson