doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Balancing on the hinge pin... how inportant?

I've seen this mentioned previously on this site.

So just how important is balancing ont the hinge pin?

I pulled out all six of my SxS's and checked them woth a short 2x4 set on edge. Here's how they balanced:
+2.5", + 2.25", + 1.5", + 1",
one: dead nuts
one: -1.25"

The one with the balance point behind the pin is my LC Smiht that I shoot rather well. I has a Silvers added for length. Would hollowing the butt to balance the gun improve it's handling?

I'm a real hacker @ SC's shooting mostly skeet and on rare occassions trap. Any advantage to weight forward guns for trap?

Thanks, Craig

You probably answered your own question. What's important is how you shoot the gun rather than where the balance point is. Sounds like you shoot well with a weight forward gun.

Craig, the hinge pin has nothing to do with the dynamic balance point. It is just a convienent place tradition says it should balance. Most experts suggest a dynamic gun should balance about 4 1/4" in front of the front trigger (Stephen Dodd Hughes, Burrard, Gough Thomas, etc.). That pretty much puts half the guns weight in each hand. And such a balanced gun tends to be very fast to mount and shoot. However, if it is primarily a gun for SC you might like the weight to be slightly forward. A weight forward gun tends to swing smoother.

So many important variables other than balance point. I have several guns with much the same balance points. I generally shoot one of those guns better than the others, thanks to better fit of stock. However, the ones I shoot almost as good have rather different stocks!

Enjoy the gun you shoot best.

Shooting from low gun, so many things can be decisive, even the thickness of clothes (I even vary thickness of slip on leather butt pad to compensate).

Niklas

Craig,

I think this hinge pin balance point that is written about so much is a bit misleading. The hinge pin location is a bit different in most guns. It is way out front on a Model 21 and much closer on the Fox models. The reference point is such a variable from gun to gun it seems useless to use it as a reference point. As an old friend once said, "are ya goin' to shoot or just talk about it?" Enjoy them all for what they each are.

Hairy

The word "balance" is used as a summation subjective assesment of a gun's handling properties or, as here, as the tetter-totter point (center of gravity/CG). As the tetter-totter point, it actually allows you to calculate how the gun's weight is proportioned between the two hands. To make the calculation, you need to know the distance between the hands and the distance of each hand to the balance point. Weight is then inversely proportional to the distance from hand to balance point. Since we need to connect balance point to hands, it is convenient to reference balance point to the (front) trigger; the trigger hand must always be located relative to the trigger to fire the gun. For example, the balance point is located 5" in front of the trigger, the center of the shooter's back hand is located 3" behind the trigger and the center of the front hand is located 4" in front of the balance point (12" hand spread). The weight is then proportioned at the inverse % of each distance divided by the total distance: front hand is inverse of 4" / 12" = 33% = 67% and back trigger hand is inverse of 8" / 12" = 67% = 33%. As you can see, balance point moving forward places an increasing amount of the gun's weight into the front hand.

Balance can be referenced to any point on the gun. Reference to the (front) trigger cuts out the step of additional measurements to reference the reference to the hands.

There is no proper balance point. Period. The average for different purpose guns is different. However, the most useful use of balance point is to figure out for yourself what envelope of balance point is best for YOU individually. Couple balance point with weight and swing effort (MOI at balance point) and you have nicely defined the gun handling you prefer or shoot best personally. It is naieve to reference balance to the hinge pin since, as stated above, the hinge pin location is quite variable. Breach face is more constant than hinge pin, but trigger is 100% related to hand location. Trigger allows conparison of all types of guns, pumps and autos included.

Thanks gentlemen for yor responses. The above referenced LC Smith with the balance point 1 1/4" behind the pin is deffinitely "butt" heavy with the Silvers pad. I'm considering hollowing out the butt to compensate.

Thanks Rocketman for your excellent explanation of how to find the optimum location.
Craig

Craig,
You stated that even though the L.C.Smith was -1.25 you shoot it well. If that's the case, why change it at all?