doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Francotte double identification pictures added

do you have any idea what model it is, or any information about it at all I have not been able to find anything like it yet.

thanks Kurt

SN 21050

Looks like a Medium Grade in 1892

http://www.doublegunshop.com/dgsnos2.htm

This data lists serial number cut-offs for the 1899 threshold.
Francotte (Auguste Francotte & Co.) shotguns -
Best grade: serial # below 16310
Medium grade: serial # below 29614
Bottom grade: serial # below 305769
http://www.empirearms.com/pre-1899.htm

LOTS of Fun reading
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=296334

Might take a tic or two but below is a similar one, although with sideplates, close serial number and same time period:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Francot...613D5A0C4325843

Search for an A. Francotte with intercepting sears.

Images are gone, but more than likely a similar one here with close serial number on this thread:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=333134&page=1

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

thanks for the info, knowing its 122 years old I think it will get cleaned up and put away, another question is the right hand ejector goes every time you open the gun weather that barrel was shot or not, any ideas?

Below is Mr. Beach's ID of the one in the above thread:

"Von Lengerke & Detmold began to import Francotte shotguns in 1889. You can find a brief history and a list of the models available through the years on my post in the FAQ section.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=229207#Post229207

The shotgun in the original post appears to be a Quality "I" (not to be confused with the Grade No. 1). The characteristics include: light weight, Anson & Deeley action, Treble-Fast locking system (Purdey-type double under-lugs, an exposed Greener cross-bolt through a parallel rib extension), and intercepting sears. Most of the catalogs of the period describe this model as an ejector gun but my notes indicate that it was also made as an extractor gun as well. Right now I cannot locate the source of this except for the general statement in the 1896 VL&D catalog (page 12) which says that the lightweight models were available "both with and without automatic ejectors". As the basic lightweight model, the Quality "I" was likely the one to be most readily available as a non-ejector gun. One thing that appears certain is that the features of the particular models were not hard and fast. Just as with gun manufacturers today, models were changed as necessary to meet a price point or incorporate some improvement in appearance or function.

The serial number 20169 is too early to be recorded in our No. 1 VL&D ledger which was created in 1900 but a VL&D advertisement published in 1894 lists several Francottes that were being offered at reduced prices. Serial numbers 204xx, 206xx, 208xx are listed there along with 223xx. This suggests that the OP's gun, number 20169, was likely made between 1889 and 1894 but exactly what year I am uncertain."

looks pretty nice, shame the rifle bbls are not factory though.
It looks like the firing pins have bushings, but no wee holes for the removing tool?.The breech face seems to have been , kinda refinished, looks abit scratchy n shiny.
In the fourth pic, is that just a gouge in the hinge pin circle,going out from the middle to 3 o clock?
good luck with it,
cheers
franc

the pins are bushed with press in disks it looks like to me. as for the breach that is the way I received the gun the scratches are very small and will not take much to clean up. last in the fourth picture you can just barly see the out line of a lock screw were the gouge bends down

I purchased it to be a usable shotgun and rifle is it safe to shoot and use?

Have you had the shotgun bbls looked at by someone who knows old sxs's..for wall thickness & such?..if they are good to go, & she is tight...then sure....with appropriate loads.
Same for the Rifle bbls,wanna get them looked at for sure.
I know even less about rifles..is that Caliber a black powder job?...I'll have to google it,lol.
But pay to get the whole lot checked by someone good, unless you know your stuff.
Do you reload ?
Where are you located?...there might be a good smith near you.
Good luck with her,cheers
franc

The .45-90 originated as a sort of black powder express. The case length of the .45-70 was extended to hold more powder but original loads came with 300 grain bullets rather than the 405 or 500 of the .45-70. It normally utilized a slower twist rate also so may not stabilize the heavier bullets. The term Express does not seem to have been used much in the US is why I aid "Sort Of", but the concept is the same, IE a heavier powder charge behind a lighter bullet.