doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com French Shotguns: A Call for Information

Thanks all for the info. I have shot it and the chokes are like full and REALLY full. It's also a 16 bore. Once again thanks to all for the info.

"Whether Chevillard did anything at all to the gun, other than sell it, is questionable."

Well said...I also believe that's the way the French gun trade worked, but it would be hard to back to back my words if someone asked me to substantiate my views, especially when the ARQB title is present. If I had to wager, I would say DR played more of a role as arqb than did Chevillard.
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I'll start sniffing around for Verney Carron slider stuff to post. Should I leave out the Stopvis because of it being a single shot shotgun, or should I at least post a picture for all the readers who don't know what a Stopvis sliding breech shotgun is?
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I'm struggling to find the words that I would like to say, so I'll just blurt the concept out..I've had 9 Frenchies come and go over the years. If only I could get them back together for a few days to compare marks and lock ups with the ones I have now, I would have a clearer picture of how the French trade worked [as opposed to the cottage work that figures so heavily in the Liege trade]. Just imagine the lessons that could be learned if 50 or 75 could French boxlocks could be compared. Roughly sorted by lock up and proof house would yeild a great understanding. Further broken down into specific lock ups and barrel makers would further the understanding. The French guntrade is hardly the final frontier, in fact, I predict that it will be reverse engineered within the next ten years if it hasn't been already. There are at least two new books out on French doubles, one of which is on Darne or the Darne types. I suggested to a collector from Belgium, that he is (perhaps) the worlds foremost sporting gun catalog collector (over 2000 European catalogs), his response was, that there are several catalog collectors who are far more advanced than he, but that his collection is the most diverse as the other collectors have focused primarily on French makers. With at least two collectors competing for the French reference data, it won't be long 'til someone gets their stuff to market. I'm gonna save lock up/proof house/barrel maker/touch mark data, just to see what pans out...I have never owned a French ejector gun, can't say that I've seen more than 3 or 4, do you have and any explanation for the rarity of French ejectors, or am I just not seeing them?.

A high percentage of the French doubles I have seen have Belgian proofs. I suspect that Belgium was the Birmingham for many French sellers. That said, I have seen Gastine Rennet [can never get the spelling of that right] guns that are second to none. These often have Belgian proofs. A three barreled 16 ga by Morian is another example. Paris address, Belgian proofs.

Daryl, if they have Belgian proofs and a French address, I guess I differ with you on terminology. I just call them Belgian doubles, pretty much like the Belgian doubles that came to this country with British or American names on them.

Gastinne Renette . . . I owned a Petrik system OU that was marked Gastinne Renette.

The French had a very active cottage industry of their own. You'll see a lot of guns with nothing but St. Etienne proofs and either no name or a French address (quite often provincial rather than Paris), barrels by a French barrelmaker like Fanget or Breuil. Quite a few of them used the Helice system, after the Verney-Carron patent expired. But there certainly were a lot of Belgian guns marketed in France. I just traded a 16 marked "C. Mode" with a Paris address but Belgian proofs.

Those are Belgian doubles that were marketed in France, like the L'Abielle line. There were some exceptions. I'm not sure what year France and Belgium separated but I'm sure the border was imaginary in the minds of some.

Larry, of course the terminology can be misleading. The French marked, Belgian proofed guns , often seem to have a French flavor to the finish and engraving. Surely some were "finished up" in France much like Birmingham guns were "finished up" in London. a
As to Gastinne Renette, I know they were a huge store, selling much more than firearms, but for the most part their doubles were beautifully refined, with engraving unlike guns with Belgian names on them. Of course there were barrel makers like Bernard etc,--do you know where they got their tubes ? I have also owned a Cogswell and Harrison , Paris address, with Austrian proofs. C and H have no record of this exact gun, but one can only wonder about it's history. I don't know the French proof laws and wonder if they accepted Belgian proofs in France.

I'd agree with the others, I imagine Chevillard put his name on the gun and sold it but it was made elsewhere.

My little Seytre game gun, has "Lacroix Paris" on the rib, and that was the owner of a other dodgy shop in the 1950s-60s. He just put his name on the gun. Seems my little baby was originally a Belgian action that was sent to a M. Seytre in Saint Etienne in the 1950s and finished. It was then sold in M. Lacroix's shop.

Daryl, the French had a bunch of barrelmakers. Even today, it's my understanding that Verney-Carron makes barrels for other companies. In fact, that odd-looking "Metro" barrel marketed by Hastings, and which (along with low velocity loads) will significantly reduce the sound of a shotgun report, is made by V-C.

As far as acceptance of Belgian proofs, the European countries seem to have gone back and forth on accepting each other's proofs, until the CIP was formed. But from everything I've read, they all seem to have tried to bring their own proof laws into sync with other Euro countries, even pre-CIP. But France did retain a far stouter optional proof than just about anyone else.

Thanks, Larry. If I read the post above correctly, the fine Seytre/Lacroix sidelock pictured is Belgian origin, finished up in France.

On the "barrels" by Verney=Carron, do you mean they make the rough tubes, too, or do they put purchased tubes together for more finished barrel sets ? I am not familiar with "Metro". To sort of clarify my thinking, I am really most familiar with pre WWII gunmakers and really don't "follow" guns made later. I understand that modern machinery can produce products in house that would have been hard to duplicate in house at the turn of the century.

A propos:







Gastinne Renette

JC(AL)