doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Western Arms long range gun

Yes, thanks for the picture, Walt. Now I've seen one!

Do you know if they had 3" chambers from the start or are there some with 2 1/2" and later ones with 3"?

LOTS of mythology about these "cast iron receivers" out there on the Web....I always wonder how much of that starts as "leverage" to get doubles cheap. I've heard "dealers" tell owners of old doubles the equivalent of "you better sell it to me for the parts, 'cause it will sure blow up in your face if you try to shoot it!" "When the emotion is right, the sense doesn't much matter!"

(I actually heard that first applied to the Stock Market by an experienced broker....)

I remember ol' Thorny; always stroking his Beesley (or was that polishing?). I rather enjoyed him and wondered where he's gone to.

Ithaca Gun Co. founded Western Arms Corp. and began producing the Western Arms Long Range Double in 1929. The 3-inch .410-bore shell was introduced in 1933 along with the Winchester Model 42 pump.

Ithaca Gun Co. 3-inch .410-bore Chambering -- July 1933 National Sportsman �

"We have not seen the official announcement but we have heard rumors that a 3" .410 shell was coming and on April 13th Norman Pillot of Houston, Texas, whom you may remember as having won the Amateur Live Bird Championship at Kansas City a short time ago, if my memory serves me right, wrote us that he was sending the barrels of his No. 4 ejector .410 Ithaca to be chambered for the new 3" shells. He also wrote us that last year he killed 180 ducks, 120 doves, 40 jacksnipe and broke 47x50 Skeet targets with this same .410 Ithaca.

In anticipating the stepping up of the .410 load, as we have previously anticipated the stepping up of loads for other gauges, all our .410's from the least expensive to the most expensive in either Ithaca, Lefever, or Westerns, have been built with material and strength enough to be rechambered for the 3" .410 and then handle it with a great big factor of safety.

I think it would be well to caution all users of .410s against using a 3" shell in the shorter chamber and I think that caution would bear repeating from time to time as applied to all makes of guns, because they still keep doing it with disastrous results.

You may say that any of our three outfits will furnish any of their .410s chambered for the 3" shell without additional charge for the longer chambering, and you may also say that the Ithaca Gun Company will rechamber an Ithaca or a gun of any other make for the 3" shell at a cost of $2.50 per barrel; and all the Ithaca Gun Company would need would be the barrels."

FWIW, N.V. Pillot won the International Flyer Championship at Kansas City in 1931 with a score of 97x100.

The first shotgun I ever shot was Dad's old Eastern Arms singleshot, which had been rechambered from 2 1/2" to 3". Sounds risky: 1/2" longer shell, higher pressure in the .410. But .410 chambers are particularly beefy, so unless you have one that tapers down sharply at 2 1/2", it's not likely you'll get a blown chamber. A.P. Curtis, who wrote a couple articles on short chambers for The American Rifleman in the 30's, reported firing a lot of 3" shells in 2 1/2" chambered .410's. Other than blown ends on the shells, he reported no issues--although he did suggest looking down the barrel to make sure that a piece of the hull didn't lodge in the bore. He reported improved patterns over a 3" shell in the appropriate length chamber, but concluded that the same pattern improvement could be achieved with a shell only 1/4" longer than the chamber.

Thanks for all the .410 lore. I always have used chamber length for a (very) rough guide to dating .410s. Works OK for the cheapest ones, not well for the better grades which may have gone back to the factory for re-chambering and re-marking.

I've seen all kinds of "experiments" done to/with cheap single shot .410s by country swains of all ages--shooting .30-30s and .44 Mags in them; reloading .444 shells with .410 components; reloading .410 shotshells with ball bearings, etc. Never saw one come apart, including some ancient "no-names" probably made by Stevens or IJ. Apparently there IS a guardian angel for farm boys and .410s.

I have a WA Long Range Gun in 3".410 and it shoots great. It crushes clays and also used it for preserve pheasants and chukars with much success.

Or maybe, the fact that all .410 guns are built to handle working pressures well above those of other common gauges gives them a greater margin of safety. Truth is, most all guns are built way stronger than necessary for the recommended loads, just to protect drunks and fools from themselves.

SRH

P.S. Not discounting the angel theory, either.

Guess that means some of those boys were doubly indemnified?

SRH