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#395180 02/21/15 03:35 PM
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tw Offline OP
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For those interested, this is the best article I've read on the subject & one that I think reflects an honest appraisal and good reporting:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Its lengthy because that what is required to state it correctly. Well worth the time, IMO.

kind regards, tw

tw #395187 02/21/15 04:05 PM
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I read it and I agree with tw...Geo

tw #395191 02/21/15 04:45 PM
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I read it as well,I think it was Brett Beir mentioned it on his show Friday.

"The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam."

But Muslims who call the Islamic State un-Islamic are typically, as the Princeton scholar Bernard Haykel, the leading expert on the group’s theology, told me, “embarrassed and politically correct, with a cotton-candy view of their own religion” that neglects “what their religion has historically and legally required.” Many denials of the Islamic State’s religious nature, he said, are rooted in an “interfaith-Christian-nonsense tradition.”

In Haykel’s estimation, the fighters of the Islamic State are authentic throwbacks to early Islam and are faithfully reproducing its norms of war. This behavior includes a number of practices that modern Muslims tend to prefer not to acknowledge as integral to their sacred texts. “Slavery, crucifixion, and beheadings are not something that freakish [jihadists] are cherry-picking from the medieval tradition,” Haykel said. Islamic State fighters “are smack in the middle of the medieval tradition and are bringing it wholesale into the present day.”

Last edited by Dave K; 02/21/15 04:58 PM.

Hillary For Prison 2018
tw #395216 02/21/15 07:13 PM
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It appears that the author of the article in the link feels that ISIS is something new and improved, but ISIS is just one of the many iterations of Islamic extremism. The beliefs of ISIS are not much different than the apocalyptic views of past Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who wished to fulfill Muslim prophesy, build a Caliphate, and await the return of the Great Mahdi.

But other than that he is quite correct, although Muslim apologists like King Brown will still Lie to us and say that ISIS is the direct result of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld... even though Islamic terrorism was going on long before the 2003 Iraq War. Muslim extremism and visions of global domination by Muslims and the destruction of Infidels has happened numerous time throughout history. Diplomacy or jobs programs have never been the solution.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

Geo. Newbern #395248 02/21/15 10:58 PM
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No question, Geo and tw. Wood is right on. IS is manageable. It will take time.

tw #395252 02/21/15 11:23 PM
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No comments on the recent Lie you told us King... blaming the formation of ISIS on Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld when you know full well that Islamic extremism and terrorism was going on long before they came on the scene?

Originally Posted By: King Brown
Your notion of sending supplies over there instead of accepting a few refugees seems peculiar to me. There wouldn't be tens of millions in neighbouring countries, thousands drowning at sea, tens of thousands killed, 4,500 of your own very best if not for Cheney and Rumsfield.

There was no Islamic State before C&R sold invasion to Bush, like Hilary to really mixing it up to Obama. As any reasonable person, my political leanings don't tie me to a single issue.


Nothing but single minded, agenda driven, compulsive Lies. You are like the Energizer Bunny of Lies.

Oh wait, you're still pretending to ignore me because I point out your many Lies.

Keep cool.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

King Brown #395266 02/22/15 07:17 AM
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Not by this administration !!!

"The group seized Mosul, Iraq, last June, and already rules an area larger than the United Kingdom.
The inflow of jihadists that followed, from around the world, was unprecedented in its pace and volume, and is continuing."



"In December, The New York Times published confidential comments by Major General Michael K. Nagata, the Special Operations commander for the United States in the Middle East, admitting that he had hardly begun figuring out the Islamic State’s appeal. “We have not defeated the idea,” he said. “We do not even understand the idea.” In the past year, President Obama has referred to the Islamic State, variously, as “not Islamic” and as al-Qaeda’s “jayvee team,” statements that reflected confusion about the group, and may have contributed to significant strategic errors.


Hillary For Prison 2018
Dave K #395274 02/22/15 09:40 AM
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Thanks again for your graphics, Dave. ISIS/IS has in fact been fighting against Al Qaida. Al Qaida also before the IS blow-out (shown above) fought alongside US forces against insurgents and were significant factor in turning things around.

Most members recall that the Iraq "army" the US Army trained for five years ran away from ISIS, partly because the US permitted Maliki&Co to favour one Muslim group over the other after Hussein's fall.

From beginning to end, Iraq has been one mistake after the other.There hasn't been a benefit to the United States in any way. The distinguished American writer Edward Luttwak , writing recently in TLS:

"Barack Obama's attempt to stick to his bitter recognition that total inaction is much the wisest course in every conflict in the region was overwhelmed by the howling mob demanding revenge for the two killed journalists, while not one of Washington's myriad think tanks held a meeting to address the question of why the Islamic State invited the US to bomb it."

General Nagata's position in the NYT report would seem to back up Luttwak. If I were Obama, I'd be golfing in California today, too. Democrats and Republicans call for something more than the country is doing but none has said how. Without much more than a mitigating action in these circumstances, it's good to rein in bim-bam and bluster until you do.

The Pentagon and White House have got it right.

King Brown #395277 02/22/15 09:54 AM
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"The Pentagon and White House have got it right."


sadly and as always King your 100% WRONG,as is this administration and the muslim you worship !


Hillary For Prison 2018
Dave K #395291 02/22/15 11:58 AM
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I don't worship any one, Dave, except the collective spirit of love. You, not me, submitted the graphic of IS's assumed caliphate---heartbreaking to see Falluja there for all its civilian and US sacrifices---and the general's analysis.

Lessons learned, no army will go in to to defeat IS. Democrats and Republicans have no solutions other than to dampening it down, US wants done with more foreign adventures and sacrifices to overseas religious war.

Where are the Pentagon and White House wrong, please? And me.

(I hope members are as entertained as I about my "pretending" to ignore the little fella. Ignore means "refusal to engage, to take notice of" and a glance is more than enough for me!)

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