doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Engaver's and copy rights

I was reading on another site about people taking smoke pulls, and copying the engraving work of other engravers.
And No one was happy about it at all. Not even rather pedestrian border or top strap work.

What are the views on that here?
How would that effect the rights of long dead engravers from long dead companies? Or their heirs?

I'd like to take pulls on a very rare old shotgun by a smaller maker, and upgrade a field model to that engraving motif.

Interesting question.
I have wondered the same thing. My WC Scott 28ga has HIGH grade wood but very minimal engraving. It would be a great gun for an upgrade.

Isn't it said, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The issue to me is not the copying, but the fraudulent sale of an upgraded gun as original. IE a $3500.00 field grade Flues 28ga upgraded to GR4 and presented as a $14000.00 original.

I'll leave it to the leagle beagles to comment on rights.

Just my off the cuff thought.
Ithaca1

Unless the engraver had legal rights to the pattern(s), in other words, a patent or registered trademark, I cannot see where they have any rights at all. Copying work only becomes an issue when it is protected, right?

If you copied a checkering pattern from an original, are you somehow violating the checkerer's rights, too? How about the type choke boring in a specific gun, the particular shape of the forend or buttstock, the color casehardening or the damascus pattern? Unless protected by being registered ......... No.

SRH

I'd agree with Stan. There are so many restorations shown here that care is taken to be period correct. Many examples here of repair work where pit removal or ill fitting tools damage engraving, and it can be reengraved with amazing skill to match the original.

Upgrades are interesting too. We see them here all the time. I'd think it's a problem if passed off as original, but I doubt it would be a copyright issue.

Copyright usually has a time limit on it, as I understand the law.

Tim

Copyright takes effect automatically and there is no need to register it anywhere. Registration are used to establish " time" . The general principle is that it is for the life of the owner plus 70 years. Service marks may operate differently.

Who copied who first? Ithaca and L. C. Smith seemed to engrave very similar patterns on the 1 1/2 grades and Ideal grades. What about the simple border engraving Parker VH grade guns and Fox Sterlingworths shared? English rose and scroll engraving patterns are widely copied throughout the world as well.

If I paint the Mona Lisa its not the original but its not illegal either. There is no way the engraving can ever be the same. There will be variations from the original in depth, width, overruns, stippling and background, etc.. It is just that artist's interpretation of the same subject. I don't see the problem.

I wish Roger Bleile would weigh in on this one.

SRH

Gee I use smoke pulls ALL the time. For restoration and just to document things I like. Pretty sure those long dead guys do not care.