doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Spanish "Not so Best".

Kyrie, not trying to pick a fight here but this is what Terry Wieland had said about the Spanish and English shotgun design; He stated that the exception was Armas Kemen that made completely different side-by-side shotguns.

�Today, a Spanish best is typically modeled on the classic English game gun: It is a side-by-side sidelock with straight grip, splinter fore-end, and double triggers. The Basques make other types and configurations of shotguns, but among the handful of surviving custom gunmakers in Eibar and Elgoibar, this gun---a slavish reproduction of the English ideal----is the definitive shotgun. All others are variations. �..Then there is the fact that for many years the British Isles was the largest single market outside Spain for the Spanish best. Throughout its history, Britain was AyA�s largest customer, and today all the custom makers export to Great Britain. Their clients are people who hunt driven grouse, partridge, and pheasant and want suitable guns that approximate a Purdey or Holland & Holland without the prohibitive price tag. Finally, there is the ancient influence of the English on the Basques through their trading ties, to say nothing of the inspiration of the greatest of all Spanish Anglophiles, King Alfonso XIII----The �true friend� of Purdey�s �. For the Basques, this all adds up to a great devotion to the English game gun formula. They decided long ago that it represents the ultimate development of the shotgun, and they set out to reproduce it as exactly as they possibly could. This is not merely a matter of crassly copying someone else�s designs, although you could look at it that way. It is more a case of acknowledging that the English approach is the best, and adopting it as their own beau ideal. It is hard to criticize them when they frankly admit that they worship the original and seek not to steal it, but only to duplicate it as well as they can.� Source: Spanish Best, The Fine Shotguns of Spain, published 2001, by Terry Wieland, pgs. 109 � 111.

If these statements are somehow wrong, then why didn�t the Spanish gunmakers call B.S. on his version of their Spanish gunmaking history?

Tim

Kyrie, You are so right about spending a lot of money on guns "that aren't what you think they are".

I ordered a Garbi 103 A in the late 80's followed by an Arrietta 801 N in the early 90's & both guns came up way short of my expectations of fit, finish & general quality based on what I had expected from importer's display examples & gun writer's reviews. In the unlikely event that I ever buy another Spanish gun It will be one that I can handle & examine prior to payment.

BTW, IMHO both of those guns were reasonably close copies of English game guns based on the H&H sidelock in all respects except for the workmanship!

Tim,

The Spanish gun makers largely don't read English or have the time to read Wieland. If they did I suspect they would just roll their eyes and so back to whatever they were doing.

Kyrie, we get it, you like Spanish guns and don't like English guns (or anything English in general from the sound of it). However your mindless loyalty, and unwillingness to even admit to the most obvious of points about Spanish gun design is laughable.

The Spanish have taken some classic and proven designs and made some fine guns in their own right. Not sure why you can't just enjoy your Spanish guns for what they are without trying to belittle everyone else for their preferences. Seems like a classic case of Napoleon complex.

You're welcome to your opinions. But be aware that I don't dislike English guns - I am disinterested in them.

After reading the past 12 pages in this thread, I'm not sure you actually believe that statement.



Now you know exactly how most people feel about Spanish guns.

All the better for those of us who are. A nice mid-grade Spanish sidelock (and/or nice boxlock) from 1950-1970 should find a welcome place in any double-gun enthusiast's collection. People shouldn't willingly limit themselves, although it is ultimately a personal choice.

Ken,
Case in point.
I just purchased a Garbi 101 12ga in the $2300.00 range. I would love to fined/purchase an English SL in the same condition and of the same quality as this 101 for CLOSE to that money.

I'm not holding my breath. I have brought in a couple of English BL's (BL's!) in the 2-3k range, and they were all returned to the seller. Worn out, off face, engraving buffed to hard....and on and on

My Spanish guns are great quality, handle like a dream and I'm not afraid to put the occasional box of high pressure shells thru them. A win/win.

Now I will say, I hunt with an English 28ga and a couple of American doubles. Just can't get away from the nostalgia.

Just one old mans take on it.

Ithaca1

Great value! I've got some Vintage Birmingham hammerguns, but as far as hammerless sidelocks and boxlocks, I have several Spanish ones. They were bought at a fraction of what comparable English guns would cost.

I remember reading a Jack Rowe interview some years ago (I think about 20 years ago) that talked about this issue, that many of the English guns over here were fairly "worn out", yet folks were asking very high prices for them. It looks to me like the Canadian and Australian prices for used English guns are more reasonable. Of course, I'm not talking about "Best" or "Big Three" guns.

Regards
Ken

You're absolutely right Greg. Its pointless. It was fun while it lasted but I'm done with this thread....