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Joined: Dec 2001
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Hello,

F.A. Loomis 12ga hammergun showed up today.

Google turns up little or nothing.

Made between 1875-1887 based on the "Not for Ball" and 12B/15M proof marks.

Anyone have information on Loomis?

I'll try to get some pics in the next couple of days.


Mike
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The ones I have seen and owned were medium to higher grade hammer guns, sourced in Belgium. Damascus barrels. Will look forward to the pictures.

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I've got one. It's a tough one. It appears that F A Loomis was probably a Folsom Trade Name. Anyone with different info, please jump in. I've identified over seventeen different models, usually beginning with "IXL", (but not always) followed by a number. This includes both Back, as well as Bar-Action hammer guns. Generally, they were medium grade Birmingham guns, pre-1890 McKinley Tariff. Most have at least some engraving, with other's engraving being fairly extensive. Most I've seen that had identifiable barrels were Damascus, but much of the time I wasn't able to see a close-up of the pattern. Mine has nice, although slightly mis-matched patterns. Probably originally finished in Black & White.

As far as to who actually made the guns, I've not been able to confirm anything. I've found speculation about J P Clayborough, F Williams, as well as others. I've seen an F Williams gun that was a dead ringer for mine, excepting the engraving contained in the circle where the model number is. In reality, they may have been made by several companies over time, no hard information about them has surfaced yet.

Bottom line, they were well made typical Birmingham guns produced for the American trade. I haven't seen the Belgian one's but it wouldn't surprise me that post-1890 Folsom switched to Belgium to maintain the same price point.

Last edited by Ken61; 05/19/15 10:23 PM.

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I saw a 10 for sale on GI. The engraving and barrel pattern looked close to the F. Williams 12 hammer I have.

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I've bought a F Williams gun off the internet, I'm going to try to pick it up this Sunday. I'll post some comparison photos with my Loomis after that.

As our Brit friends have reiterated many times, even though the gun is marked, it may only be the Seller's name, and especially for guns of this period, it may have been "sourced" from one of the myriad of makers in operation in Birmingham at the time.

If you dig into the "F Williams" and "Fred'k Williams" (Frederick) names it's interesting. "Fred'k" was a later well-regarded company that made mid-grade guns for other high-end makers and sellers to be sold under their own names. "Fred" was in operation well into the 20th Century. Depending upon the source, there is sometimes direct linkage asserted between "Fred'k" and the earlier "F Williams" name, but so far it is somewhat unclear to me. If anyone has any specific info on the direct relationship between the companies, (or lack of it) please post it.

Hopefully one of you "Fred'k" devotees out there will know.

Regards
Ken

Last edited by Ken61; 05/20/15 07:55 AM.

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Here's a F Williams that has been on GB for quite some time. Other than seeing the engraving, its difficult to tell much about it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=483987814

This is a later Fred'k (Frederick) for comparison. Hardly a "Best" gun, the seller is a little overly enthusiastic with his description.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=484042738

Here's a snippet from the Fred'k gun's description that cites a DGJ article:

According to Double Gun Journal: Frederick Williams started making premium quality hand built shotguns in Birmingham, circa 1881. In 1886 he moved his business into an imposing three story building at 32/33 Weaman Street in the Saint Mary's District, the heart of the Birmingham gunmakers quarter, not far from the noted gunsmiths' public house known as the Green Man. Mr. Williams advertised himself as a "specialist in English hand made shotguns." He appears to have produced a large number of top quality doubles, both boxlocks and side locks. Frederick Williams sold shotguns to the public from his Birmingham works and at one point also maintained a retail gun shop in London. However, most of the shotguns produced by Frederick Williams were marketed by London gunmakers under their own names, or by provincial retailers, once again, under their own names. Such was the quality of the Williams products that many of the most prestigious English makers were proud to sell them alongside their own best guns. Thus today classic side-by-sides bearing the inscription, "Fred'k Williams*" are a rarity. (*note the apostrophe used in abbreviating the name Frederick). The Great Depression and the Second World War devastated the British gunmaking industry and ultimately destroyed the British Empire. The last known Frederick Williams shotgun was proofed at Birmingham in 1950.

Last edited by Ken61; 05/20/15 07:55 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Ken61
Here's a F Williams that has been on GB for quite some time. Other than seeing the engraving, its difficult to tell much about it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=483987814

This is a later Fred'k (Frederick) for comparison. Hardly a "Best" gun, the seller is a little overly enthusiastic with his description.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=484042738



If those are the best pictures the sellers can come up with, I'm not surprised to see them go unsold.


Mike
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With the comparisons being made to F. Williams, I included the one I own in the pictures with the Loomis.

The Loomis is clearly of higher quality, while the Williams has the edge in condition.

When I had Paul Hodgins examine the Williams many years ago, he pointed out several items that indicated that while it carries English proofs, it was very likely made in Belgium and imported into England. Ex: No provisional proofs, only final.





















Forgot pics of the proof marks. Will get those taken.

Last edited by Utah Shotgunner; 05/20/15 09:44 AM.

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More on Loomis






Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 05/20/15 09:55 AM.
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Cocking indicators and bushed pins. Nice details.



Mike
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