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Builder;

I have gone through many flats of RIO 28 and .410 shells and am very satisfied with them. They are also priced very reasonably compared to other brands, especially US makers (WIN AA, REM STS, etc.). Whether this will continue given the upward spiral in base metals prices is problematic, but the ammo is quality and does the job well.

I must agree with other posters about the 1 oz. load in the 28 ga. The 28 is my favorite gauge and I've shot thousands and thousands of rounds through them over the years. The 1 oz. load in the 28 is a terrible load, both ballistically and field-performance wise. Awful patterns, substandard velocity, and way too much recoil for most of the small, light-framed guns people stuff it into. The 3/4 oz. load is good in the 28 for all-around field shooting (dove, quail, woodcock) but lighter loads are even better (11/16; 5/8 oz. have much better velocity and truly wonderful patterns). Like a 3" mag 20 gauge, overloading the 28 with 1 oz. loads gains you nothing in the final analysis and there are many more negatives associated with it, especially in lightweight guns, some of which exhibit vicious recoil using it (try shooting something like a 5 1/2 lb. Darne using it!).

Lighter is definitely better in the 28 when talking about the 1-oz. load, especially remembering that the gauge performs way more than the sum of its parts, so to speak, when fed a proper diet. KBM

speaking of the rio 28ga 1oz loads, they are serious shoulder smackers...and I agree, why would they load 1oz in a 28??

Ortolan and Chux,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and your good advice. However there is a miscommunication regarding the Rio shell I am talking about. The 28 refers to 1 oz. of shot not the gauge and when I wrote it I should have pointed out it is a subsonic 12 gauge 1 ounce shell. I am still hoping it will have very low pressure even though the hull is 2 3/4" and that I might risk using it in 2 1/2" chambered gun. It would therefore be an alternative to $8/box low pressure shells in 1 oz. and alternative to spending too much time in the basement reloading my own.

On another topic. My wife was shooting regular 28 gauge loads in a 5 1/4 lb Franchi AL-48 recoil operated semi-auto with the stock cut down to 12-1/2" and was black and blue from the experience. Part of the problem was it was not a gas operated semi-automatic and the other problem was the size of the butt had been reduced by cutting the length shorter. Two lessons learned and the gun was sold.

I shoot the Rio "Trap 28" a lot in my doubles,both damascus and steel, which is a 28 gm(1 oz) load at 1210 fps.
I have checked with Rio and it is a 7200 psi load. It has moderate recoil and is extremely effective. I suspect the Sub load would be around 6000 psi.

I'm afraid we've got that 'speaking a different (pressure) language' problem again. Rio ammo is manufactured in Spain http://www.rioammo.com/articles.htm and the pressures reported are very likely CIP (B&P confirmed in an e-mail that the pressures they report 'have nothing to do with SAAMI') SO it would be wise to add 400-1000 psi to the numbers they publish (pending pressure testing by someone like Armbrust) For comparison, the Winchester AA Xtra-Lite 1 oz WAAL12 at 1189 fps runs 8000 psi (by actual testing.)
BTW: the same thing applies to Fiocchi's numbers although much of their ammo is manufactured in Ozark, MO.

Thanks. I will try to get a box and test it. I wonder what the shells I reload run. They are supposed to be 5100 psi, 1 oz.,PB loads. Maybe I should have them both tested. Maybe I should have my head examined too.

I specifically asked the Rio dealer in HOuston to give me the Trap 28 pressure in PSI and the answer came back at 7200 psi.

There have been several threads about proof pressures and CIP vs. SAAMI pressures. Larry Brown understands this much better than I, but it is all summarized on this thread http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3428
It is clear from the B&P speed-pressure chart that they simply coverted BAR to PSI using the standard formula 1 bar=14.50377 psi, which does not give the actual PSI as measured by SAAMI standards (piezotransducer) Unfortunately, there is essential NO formula to convert BAR expressed as LUP (CIP) to PSI (SAAMI). LUP + 1000 does not reliably predict the actual piezoelectric transducer measured pressure.
Testing of 16g B&P, Fiocchi, and GameBore loads by Armbrust showed the psi to be significantly higher than what the manufacturers reported. One could inquire of Rio, as I did of B&P, if the pressures were measured by CIP or SAAMI standards.

OK, so Brian from Able Ammo never emailed me like I suspected. I called Houston and spoke to Patrick who is in charge of these numbers.

In CIP standards:

TLT28SUB = 6900 psi
This is 1 ounce, 12 gauge subsonic at 1050 fps.

TLSK28 & TLT28 = 7900 psi
These are 12g., one ounce, skeet and trap loads that are the same except for shot size.

If you add 600 to 1,000 psi to reach American psi, they are rather marginal for all but the toughest vintage guns.