doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Schaefer & Son

Here are some pics of my WM R Schaefer and Son hammer gun. The barrels are marked HAL for Lindner I presume. Even though it is a plain field type gun,it is as finely built gun as any I have ever seen.
Ross

I only took one pic of my other Schaefer, it does not have Lindner barrels.

I am sure you didn't mean it that way, but if Lindner was involved I believe his mark means he made the entire gun, not just the barrels.

Ross: My Schaefer was built in England, so I don't see why he might not have sold Prussian guns as well. Bill McPhail, Michael Petrov or others will know for sure whether Lindner made any Schaefers. "HAL" seems like a pretty strong clue. Really nice stuff, by the way. I still think we should plan a Schaefers-only quail hunt! TT

Did you have the barrels refinished? If so by who? Beautiful gun.

We need to see a bit more of the gun to place it, possibly, from Lindner's shop. The barrels most certainly came from Lindner if they are marked HAL and can be dated to a time after 1892/3. The Damascus barrels place it very soon after that. Lindner was one of the first to tout steel as opposed to Damascus. The man, after all, was a sharp businessman.
Please show the forend lug as well as any marks on the barrels.
Looks to have had the makers name and address removed from the rib. This makes me very suspicious of its not having been built here.
I think we have decided that Lindner did fit second sets of barrels on other guns that were "built" by American shops.
For what it is worth, the placement of the lock pins are the same as one Lindner and one T L Golcher(Lindner marked barrels) gun in my collection.
One thing does bother me in trying to place the gun's birth in Germany. Lindner's mark was not usually placed on the barrels as this one was. I can't help but think that the barrels just may not be original to the gun. They may be a second set to either add to the gun or to replace original ones. If this be true, whomever fitted them is to he held in awe. The fitting is evidence of a master worker.
Reb87---thanks for sharing. This adds much to the quest for HAL info. May tell a bit more about Schaefer's production as well.
Best,
John

Schaefer sourced their guns from many sources. Around 1890 boxlocks came from Westley Richards, and I have seen identical guns, one marked Daly and the other marked Schaefer. These were from Lindner. Of course lots of "makers" built their guns in this way.

Here's a Thomas Golcher from the same source as Reb's gun. Plain gun built to the highest quality.

Plain, unengraved guns of this quality do not a "field gun" make. However, it does help us when we spot an unadorned Schaefer, Golcher, or Mullin on a gun show table at a low price. The pictured Schaefers do not have the squared off top lever that many Lindner made Dalys and Golchers have. I have no idea what that means, but both of my Lindner marked Golchers have the characteristic square top lever.

I missed this discussion. The only gun I have seen posted on this site with a second set of Lindner barrels is my W&C Scott. Have others been posted?

Mike, Pete Hiatt has a Scott with Lindner marked barrels that I have assumed is not "your gun". Is Pete's gun the same gun as your gun?

I believe that when the guns were marked W.R. Schaefer the barrels and actions were imported from different sources and complete guns were built to order at his shop.
When Richards name (son) circa 1883 was added to the business I do not believe that many guns were made from parts in the shop. Most “& Son” guns are hammerless and appear to be Prussian built Dalys with the exception they show better fit and finish and attention to detail, albeit almost never any engraving. The ones that are engraved show more coverage than a “Diamond” Daly. I believe these guns were imported in the white and finished in Boston. What needs to be done to verify this one way or the other is to track the workmen (about six) and see when they were working at the Schaefer shop. Schaefer sold Daly shotguns both hammer and hammerless, the Schaefer hammerless was $60 more than the Daly in a circa 1885 Schaefer catalog.

Ross, can you post more pictures of your other Schaefer, Thanks.


My favorite Schaefer “Field Gun”

Yes the gun that Pete had is 'my gun'. I found it in a gunshop in Lexington, KY in '98 or '99 and foolishly traded it to Pete at a later date. I decided I wanted it back and Pete and I worked out another trade to bring it 'home'.

It is currently at the 'smith having most of its problems taken care of.

So the short answer is that it is still the only gun that I know of that absolutely has a second set of Lindner barrels. The second set of barrels carry the 'HAL' mark with the Crossed Pistols and the appropriate proof marks. They also have a barrel number different the s/n. The original Scott s/n is stamped on the flats with barrel number ahead of the flats.

MP, that Field Gun is fine. This gun is marked Wm. R. Schaefer, 61 Elm St. Boston. Finished up in Boston ?

I’ve only seen barrels marked like yours one time and that was on the Lindner marked gun.

MP, here are the marks on the barrel.

Mike, I liked the gun when Pete had it, almost bought it one time at Vegas. The price was not out of line but a glitch or two kept it in his hands. Oddly, with the thousands of guns and vendors that year, I bought a piece of wood and a gun from Pete, but not the Scott. The wood is on the back end of a restored prewar Midas Browning.

Hey DH - isn't that the gun you bought out from under me???

Just kidding - sort of.


OWD

MP here are some more pics of my other Schaefer. I suspect you may have seen it before as it came from your neck of the woods.

If ever you want to get rid of the hammer gun you pictured (wow) please keep me in mind. The hammers are very nice.

Daryl,
That is a nice Golcher.

Does the hammerless gun top lever move left and right (ambedextrious)like a Westley Richards?

John, I dont think anything was removed from the rib. The inscription area is raised.

Reb, the toplever on the A&D action works only by pushing to the right.

The Golcher is finished as well as most any gun I have owned. Maybe finished like the Patrick Mullin guns or the Boyd and Tyler Bob Noble is selling. Just exquisite.

OWD, this is the same gun found in a small NE auction. Weren't you at that auction ? ' couldn't believe my tiny fax bid stood.

Yeah - I was there. If I hadn't been there, you would have bought it for a lot, lot less. After about $400, we were the only ones bidding on it.

After the lot sold, I asked them if some guy from Montana won it. They couldn't believe I knew who outbid me.

It's a nice gun. You just wanted it more than I did.

OWD