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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Agree with Yeti!! Bring on the history, photos, and opinions. Being taught gun work by a master, as opposed to having to find it out for yourself, is an experience I'd like to hear more about. Love those minitures.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 869
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 869 |
 Ms. Raven
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315 |
Excellent observation Mark (and I think we've seen those guns in another thread?)  Marked 'Laminated Steel' but certainly appears to be a 'large scroll' Crolle, but I can't discern the ribband weld lines clearly to call 2- or 3- Iron. I'd look for Belgian proofmarks on the brls. BTW: I've done alot of editing on the PictureTrail http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=16082038
Last edited by revdocdrew; 06/23/07 05:11 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
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Double Gun Classics Vol 1, No. 4 & 5, 2006 has the Birmingham Proof House test as reported in The Field in 1891, with commentary by Kirk Merrington. Great reading.
Last edited by revdocdrew; 06/25/07 06:24 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315 |
Still working on getting damascus patterns identified. This large scroll Two Iron Crolle pattern might be "Boston Damascus"-anyone with a similar pattern? 
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 869
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 869 |
Yup.....on the way. But I call that as a "one iron"........only one core( or "star" ) between the weld lines?
My example should be up tomorrow morning, #2 Flues, 1912ish, marked "LLH".
Methinks the core of the "ribband"...or is it the "skelp" appears as a star, or cross...as it would be the least likely to twist and give a pattern during the whole twisting and forging process.
Hence the dense "core", with less figure.....but the radiating ends that give the "croll"
Some of the other examples offered up would support this, no?
Best,
Mark
Ms. Raven
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
In reference to Rev's most recent photo...above
Please, could someone explain how the crosses can go from black to white...so close on the skelp?...
what seems to be the most simple pattern, at first glance, now looks mystifying to me...
Are mixed crosses common, and I've just not noticed it before?
Rev, Thanks for the course in damascus barrels, will there be a written test? I feel like I should have paid tuition...well, sort of...
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 869
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 869 |
I am with you on that Point Robert!
My guess is the small strips that make up the bar are composed of various length "bits"...and thus vary the "bright" and "dark" stars? That, or they are slightly off center and you get the alternating pattern?
I could be way off on several levels on this....would expect it actually, but thought it would be good food for thought?
Best,
Mark
Ms. Raven
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
Bits...thats a good guess...but now it's everywhere...in fact I can't find one that's not mixed...even the one the picture trail "Terrell" is mixed...I have some reviewing and head scratchin' to do...my guess is wire...not only was the technology 'old hat' in Europe, so late in the industrial revolution, but wire can be intracately woven, drawn, twisted, welded, and flattened into a skelp...it can be so intracately woven, that you could write a name like Terrell, but the diameter of the wire billet would be so large, that it may have been drawn through a series of rollers into a long wire, before being flattened into a skelp...it's always been my guess for the other lettered barrels (Prince Albert or the word REMINGTON) ...so now my "wire" guess has broadened to include crolle...there are many other factors as to why wire technology is a strong candidate for reverse engineering at least one type of rolled damascus barrels...
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,427 Likes: 315 |
Once again, the more the think you know, the less you really do! Mark: the pattern certainly looks like two 1/2 scrolls between each ribband weld BUT Dr Gaddy's One Iron example seems to show one 'smashed and smudged' full scroll between the weld lines  On the ? Boston pattern, I'm calling the round and symmetric scroll as the center, with two 1/2 scrolls on each side (that don't form another round scroll) =Two Iron. And re: the 'stars' between the scrolls, you can identify some that are 1/2 black (iron) and 1/2 white (steel)! Since we're looking end-on at the twisted billet of alternating iron and steel, the size of the 'star' depends on how small and tightly wound the rod was. And it seems the higher quality Crolle has smaller scrolls and 'stars' between them. And the color of the star depends on which tiny rod within the billet happened to be on the outside of that twist? Please tell me that makes sense  And I just read in a Double Gun Classics e-zine that Daniel Wesson is reported to have ordered 400 sets of barrels from a Belgian source, 200 of which had "Wesson" spelled out in the damascus pattern. Has anyone seen one?
Last edited by revdocdrew; 06/26/07 10:33 AM.
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