doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Information on Gunmaker Rivolier Pere et Fils

Pretty safe bet, Keith, that the gun had a stock and forend when it left the factory. Once completed, its next destination would have been either to the buyer or to some other gunshop that sold their guns. But that's not saying the stock and forend were necessarily made by Rivolier. I think we've all agreed that even large makers sometimes use outworkers. Given that there was never a shortage of outworkers in St. Etienne--evidenced by the relatively large number of French guns that don't have ANY maker's name--that's quite possible. But, having looked at this gun on Cabela's website and having spoken with the guys at the Gun Library in Rogers before this thread ever appeared, it was clear to me that we're not talking about the original wood. The wood does not look the way it does because it's a "closet queen". It looks the way it does because it's a custom job. And, as best I can tell without having it in hand and looking at it, I'd say a pretty darned good custom job.

And no, I hardly ever read your posts. In this case, from comments made by others, it seemed that it was one of those rare instances when you were actually contributing something of substance. Bravo! Every now and then, you stumble down the right path.

That's not what you told us Jagermeister. Why should we believe you now?

And why does a guy who acts as if he knows everything about doubles and guns of all kinds need advice from "lowiecki.pl"... whatever the hell that is? What advice could loweicki. pl give to a bloviator who seems to know more about doubles than McIntosh, Trevallion, Brister or Brophy??? Also, you recently told us about the great job you have, and the big raise you got. So why do you need to put relatively cheap guns on layaway?

The numbers still don't add up pertaining to the number of guns you have claimed to own just since January of this year.

And since you still don't own even one lousy double gun, wouldn't you be more at home on some Remington semi-auto internet forum??? That assumes you really bought a 16 gauge Remington semi-auto. What next? Are you going to tell us you are an award winning wine maker like your Canadian friend?

Larry, did you actually read my reply to you, or did you just QUOTE it and make another reply that totally ignored what I just said? Or did you read it and simply not comprehend it?

I didn't see this gun at Cabelas. In fact, I never saw a gun by this manufacturer until it was pictured in this thread. But something about it made me want to learn more. At that point in time, I had no idea what original wood looked like... hence my initial statement that it was either a very lightly used closet queen or had been refinished. Once again Larry, very shortly after that, I acknowledged that it had likely been restocked. We do agree that whoever did it did a really nice job. I'd like to see more of his work.

Let's not forget that it was you who made this pronouncement about RPF... with absolutely nothing to back it up.



Then you later seemed to suggest that they were spread too thin in their various product lines to be totally responsible for the build of these guns. That's why I used the examples of Parker and Winchester. Since virtually every vintage U.S. Double Shotgun maker used Damascus, and in many cases, fluid steel tubes from outside foreign sources, I suppose we should look down our nose at them as well, or call them guild guns.

It's become obvious that you can't ignore me, even when you say you are. You've replied to me directly or indirectly too many times to honestly claim otherwise. It's OK, Larry. I personally don't ever use the IGNORE feature on anyone, even though some folks here are hypocritical and loathsome. I have more fun pissing them off than I ever would ignoring them. If I ever do ignore someone, it will be for real... as if they were dead... no exceptions.

They're French barrels then, possibly sourced from which French maker? Or in house?

I think the OP has slipped away from this discussion.

No indication they were made elsewhere, and there's often a barrelmaker's name when that's the case. So certainly could be in house. But dead certain they're French.

There was plenty of barrel making technology available in Saint-Etienne. Sure at times Belgian barrels were used in some Saint-Etienne guns...For instance Neltir said Zaveterro Frerres sused (Belgian) Lovinfosse Hardy Fran�ois et Fils barrels (1930'a) - but it was demonstrated that ZF also used its own barrels and those of Society Heurtier also from Saint-Etienne. The Belgian barrels apparently infiltrated because of price. however, these barrels have proof marks and maker's marks. Belgian barrels have Belgian makers' marks and proofs. If the barrels are proofed in Saint-Etienne...assume they are French.

I agree with Larry - I think the barrels are Saint-Etienne; the stock is not original.

Here is a very interesting line on a Saint-Etienne G. Callens gun which discusses Belgian pricing..including comments by Dr. Drew Hause. You'll note that the comments are congenial.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=368629&page=1

There's certainly nothing wrong with Belgian barrels or Belgian shotguns. That being said, what often happens is that someone wrongly assumes a gun is French because it has the address of a French "maker" on the rib or elsewhere . . . when a quick examination of the proofmarks would show its true origin to those who know the difference.

The French often tell Belgian jokes, much like they tell . . . well, Norwegian jokes in Minnesota would be a good example. Often has to do with the Belgians' drinking beer and eating French fries. Can't necessarily fault them for that, either!

It frustrating though Larry that a lot of these beautiful guns cannot be traced back to its maker. Most the time all we have is proof marks to guide us.

Very little literature has been translated also that could shed some light on these beautiful guns that surface every so often.

Very frustrating.

We'll be working on that. There are several of us who speak French and a few genuinely interested in French guns.

The classic joke (which requires animation) (because even the word "Beige" can send French into proxisms of laughter))

-- Belgium guy is walking along eating fries..the cone holding the fries held in left hand.
-- French kids says, "Sir what time is it?"
-- He checks the time and immediately dumps the fries.
-- This happens 4-5 times
-- Finally he wises up.
-- Next time the kids ask the time, he transfers the fries to his right hand and tells them to Foff using the international arm gesture (which of course launches the fries).

My wife is French...I lived for three years in Brussels.

I've had several people suggest that I should write a book on French doubles. If I were only independently wealthy! I've thought about requesting that folks here subsidize the undertaking . . . with the promise that I'd repay them from the profits generated by the book in question. I'm guessing that if I were to collect $5,000 in subsidies from those with an interest in French guns, by the time I deducted my expenses, there wouldn't be any profit left to share.

Two problems. The first, based on the above: For someone living in this country, it'd have to be a labor of love. Second problem: I'd guess that by now, too many primary sources are no longer available. The French gun trade slowly withered away after WWII. 40 or maybe 50 years ago would have been the time to do it . . . except back then, there was even less interest in French guns.