doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 2.14 mile shot.

Well thanks bunches. The stupidity and hypocrisy of the pacifist was supposed to go with out saying. You do realize that if improvement means survey teams are mandated to mark off three mile minimums, they'll still cower under the curse of whiteness?

Of course, craig, if you say.

Hey King, I'll answer on behalf of your new imaginary friend "Jack" or "John M." It is true you have posted many anti-gun and anti-2nd Amendment statements by Left wing Liberal Jurists and politicians. But right here we see you once again in dishonest denial of your own words. Take a closer look at what YOU said within one of your anti-2nd Amendment diatribes. I took the time to place your "I believe" statements in BOLD PRINT.



Those were your own words King... not those of jurists or others. That was just a small sample of the anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric you have posted here for many years... yet dishonestly claim you have never seen.

You had been duly informed and educated about the Framer's thoughts words, and debates pertaining to the Individual Rights component of the 2nd many times in the past. You had even reluctantly accepted being corrected on your erroneous notions. Then you always went right back to the anti-gunners' usual tactic of denying that there was ever any Original Intent on the part of the Framers for an Individual RKBA.

It is just as dishonest for you to say that the anti-2nd Amendment opinions of Liberal Jurists such as Burger have not been refuted here. But why would we expect you to be honest about that when you are in denial of your own words? It doesn't take a certified shrink to recognize that kind of pathologically dishonest behavior as mental illness. In my opinion, you are a very sick and deranged man.

It is not just my opinion, or the opinion of your imaginary friend John M., that Burger was not a Conservative. It is well known that he and his Liberal left leanings were a great disappointment to Nixon and the Conservatives who believed what he said during his confirmation. That's the kind of dishonesty that probably makes you smile. It is you who perpetually attempts to portray him as a Conservative. That just further cements your reputation as a total and complete fraud and anti-gun Troll.

Jack or John M, whichever suits, on your resurrected Second, from The New Yorker, first paras:

So You Think You Know the Second Amendment?

By Jeffrey Toobin
December 17, 2012


"Does the Second Amendment prevent Congress from passing gun-control laws? The question, which is suddenly pressing, in light of the reaction to the school massacre in Newtown, is rooted in politics as much as law.

For more than a hundred years, the answer was clear, even if the words of the amendment itself were not. The text of the amendment is divided into two clauses and is, as a whole, ungrammatical: �A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.� The courts had found that the first part, the �militia clause,� trumped the second part, the �bear arms� clause. In other words, according to the Supreme Court, and the lower courts as well, the amendment conferred on state militias a right to bear arms�but did not give individuals a right to own or carry a weapon.

Enter the modern National Rifle Association. Before the nineteen-seventies, the N.R.A. had been devoted mostly to non-political issues, like gun safety. But a coup d��tat at the group�s annual convention in 1977 brought a group of committed political conservatives to power�as part of the leading edge of the new, more rightward-leaning Republican Party. (Jill Lepore recounted this history in a recent piece for The New Yorker.) The new group pushed for a novel interpretation of the Second Amendment, one that gave individuals, not just militias, the right to bear arms. It was an uphill struggle. At first, their views were widely scorned. Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, who was no liberal, mocked the individual-rights theory of the amendment as �a fraud.�

But the N.R.A. kept pushing�and there�s a lesson here. Conservatives often embrace �originalism,� the idea that the meaning of the Constitution was fixed when it was ratified, in 1787. They mock the so-called liberal idea of a �living� constitution, whose meaning changes with the values of the country at large. But there is no better example of the living Constitution than the conservative re-casting of the Second Amendment in the last few decades of the twentieth century. (Reva Siegel, of Yale Law School, elaborates on this point in a brilliant article.)"

This is wonderful King. It is great to see you reverting back to the anti-gun Troll... which you so frequently deny.

Leave it to anti-gunners like you, and the author of your little anti-gun article, to portray the words of the 2nd Amendment as "ungrammatical". And leave it to you to attempt to say that the Supreme Court had previously ruled upon the Individual Rights component prior to the 2008 Heller and McDonald decisions.

The 1977 NRA reforms were in response to increasing attacks on the 2nd Amendment by the Liberal Left Democrats you so admire and support. They were not to institute a "novel interpretation of the Second Amendment" as you and this author claim. They were a recognition that our Constitutional Rights were in danger of being lost to people like you who were attempting to change the clear meaning of the 2nd Amendment, and the actual words of the Framers, who said things like this:

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

�A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves�and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms� "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

�Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!�
-Benjamin Franklin

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

Old Thomas Jefferson must have foreseen anti-gun Trolls like you when he made that last statement King.

Now I have something else to add to my "Silent Doubles" Memorial Tribute to you when you croak. I think it's fitting that your legacy here should be your very own anti-gun words and opinions, eh?

Your disagreement should be with your fellow Americans, not me. Jousting with a Chief Justice and legal analysts seems more appropriate in another place.

I'll say again that I don't recall anti-gun sentiments on this board. Disagreements plenty of regulations pros and cons but no outright anti-gun. Tens of thousands of Second interpretations by myriad US jurisdictions are expressions of how communities want to live, "constitutionally" or otherwise. It's America's enduring debate. It's not one side can only be right.

King Brown, I just posted some of YOUR OWN words and beliefs pertaining to the 2nd Amendment for you... less than One hour ago... and you are already in denial of your own words. I even took the time to re-post them again in BOLD TYPE for you. See my post # 403804 above King. You responded to it. Would you like me to post more? I've saved most of your anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric so I can post it all in Silent Doubles when you croak, as my personal tribute to you. Now you go back to your little game of saying it isn't anti-gun for you to post the anti-2nd Amendment words of others. Then you even say that there are no anti-gun sentiments on this Board. That is just sick and pathologically dishonest.

Did you read those quotes made by the Framers pertaining to the Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and what they felt should define the Militia of the 2nd, King? There are many more quotes, letters, and editorials written by the Framers to support the position affirmed by the 2008 Supreme Court decisions that you still wish to deny. Are you going to try to tell us that the NRA changed those words and changed history after the 1977 Cincinnati Reforms? Well King?

The fact that you continue to post the anti-gun articles and opinions of anti-2nd Amendment Trolls such as yourself just goes to show where your sentiments lie. You have a history of this going back more than 10 years here. This is no inadvertent misstatement on your part.

Pro-Gun guys do not post crap like that, unless it is followed by an attack on the author and exhortations to join the NRA or vote for pro-gun politicians... something you will never do. Do you remember when you flat-out lied about what Constitutional scholar Mark Levin said about the RKBA? How about when you flat-out lied about Obama's anti-gun legislative activities? And are you going to tell us that you've never seen your fellow anti-gun Troll Ed Good's calls for disarming law abiding gun owners?

Mental illness can hardly explain the kind of dishonesty you exhibit here King. You can keep right on posting denials King, hoping people will forget what you posted in the past. I will keep right on reminding them with your own words, that we have anti-2nd Amendment Trolls right here undermining our rights and stabbing us in the back.

Your attitudes are perfectly clear, and I have hardly been the only one to recognize them here. Who do you think you're fooling? But It's hardly surprising that you now wish to move the discussion to another place... after you have been flushed out once again... and once again showed everyone where you stand when it comes to denigrating and undermining our 2nd Amendment Rights and lying about the NRA.

Please don't blame me for this King. Your new imaginary friend John M. made me do it!

P.S.: Hi Last Dollar. I see you peeking! Can you see how welcoming guys like King into your ridiculous "One Big Tent" of Gun Guys is like welcoming termites into a wood framed house? Or are you still stupid?

This is kinda fun! Since I ignore both Keith and King Brown, I am free to make up my own version of their exchanges...

There's an unbiased source for you the 'New Yorker' This Toobin idiot wasn't he the one that wrote that article about him shooting an AR15 for the first time and said that the smell nauseated him and his poor whittle shoulder hurt from all the recoil. Poor little liberal moron I'm sure it took years and many hours of therapy to recover from his trauma.

Historically, the term 'Sniper' came from shotgunning as a feller that could hit a snipe with his fowler or shotgun was called a 'Sniper' So this thread has relevance back to shotguns including double barrel shotguns.