doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 16 bore Pheasant loads

I'm planning on hunting my 16 gauge Evans double for pheasants this year. I'm a bit at a loss for what might be a good load in a 16 as I have never hunted with one.

Currently, I'm loading 80 gr of Goex Cartridge and 1 oz of lead (5s normally). I put about 1/4" of a lubed Circle fly wad between them. The case is a Win AA that is cut to 2 9/16" and roll crimped.

I really need to pattern this but is a 1oz load of lead reasonable for a 16?

BTW, the right barrel is proofed as "17" and the left barrel is stamped
16B
18M Not for ball

So I take it that I have a pretty open right barrel and a fairly tight left barrel.

Brent

Try the "Vintagers" low pressure loads from PolyWad in Macon, Georgia. I have used them for several years and like them in a number of 1890-1935 guns, all 16's. They have a nice web site.

Yes the one ounce load is enough. I had no problem at all in S.Dakota with a 20ga and 1oz loads so the 16 will be equally good with it. Just don't try to make open chokes do the job full choke was intended to solve. My old German 16ga (1912 or so gun) has a service load stamped on the barrels which is exactly a 1oz load for the 2 9/16" chambers.

I'm with Jerry. I used a 20g with 1 oz modern loads the last 2 yrs in SD on phez to great success. I also used a damascus Parker 12g with 1 oz/#5/1150fps loads on SD phez with good results.

I would go with low-recoiling Eley 'Grand Prix' 26.5gm load with #6 shot pushed by fibre wad. It's available in: BB,3,4,5,7. Avg. V2m 390m/s Avg. GP 536bar. You can consult folks at 16ga.com, but I doubt they have something more balanced to offer.
PS. It is suitable to guns with 65mm chambers.

I should have added that if you are looking for commercial ammo, I have had great performance out of RST 16ga loads which come in both 7/8oz and 1oz loads. And the pressures are low. I like the 7/8oz because my 16ga is very light and the lighter load is a bit easier on me and the old wood. Quail and Huns work well with the lighter loads.

Brent, the "not for ball" tells you when the gun was made (between 1875-87), but doesn't tell you anything about choke. Neither do the 16 and the 17, although they do tell you that the original bore diameter on the 17 barrel is a few thousandths tighter than that on the 16 barrel. But you still have to measure the constriction at the muzzle, in relation to the bore diameter, to determine how much choke you have. And given the age of that gun, it's quite likely that the barrels have been honed and that bore and choke diameters no longer match what's marked.

An ounce of shot would have been the maximum load for which that gun was intended. Your concern, however, is with the pressure generated by that load. If I were reloading for a gun of that vintage, I'd want to stay under 8,000 psi. The safe thing to do, if you're not working up reloads to a "book" formula that tells you pressure, is to shoot factory shells designed for short-chambered guns. Several are suggested above.

I know Larry. The 16B, 18M tells me I have two gauges of choke on the left barrel. It is also the barrel that is stamped Not for ball. The other barrel is not so stamped but bears simply a 17 - which I consider to be the bore diameter and that there is choke in that barrel.

I'm working up loads with blackpowder of course. Frankly, if there are books out there with such loads they would be next to useless given the batch to batch variation in black powder.

Perhaps I'll load an 1 oz for pheasants and 7/8 oz for clays. I would like to keep the loads ballistically similar though. That may take a bit of extra work.
Brent

Brent
Get a Dixie Gunworks Catalogue, in the back is all sorts of useful information, including BP reloading recomendations.
Steve

16ga = .662"
17ga = .649"
18ga = .637"
Prior to 1887 there were no sub-divisions.
The right bbl would take a 17ga plug from both breech (bore dia) & muzzle (choke dia) but not a 16ga plug
The left bbl would take a 16ga plug from breech & an 18ga plug from muzzle. The actual constriction was not measured so muzzle dia could have been anything from .637" up to just under .649".
Standard practise of the day I believe was to use a ball of dia about bore size -.010". Trying to fire a .652" dia ball down the left bbl would most likely have resulted in a "Lifted" choke (or worse). However a ball which would clear the .637" dia could be safely fired, only question would then be accuracy.

Brent, you will be well advised to load 1oz No6 loads, and you will find them ideal for phez.Try searching the European manufacturers for 16g cartridges, 16g is very popular in the Northern European countries. Check out Danarms,Gytorp and Hull for good commercial loads.

B, in a gun of that era, stands for breech diameter; M for muzzle diameter. I may be wrong on this point, but I think "not for ball" should appear on both barrels.

One must be careful while exploring Euro 16br loads. For example, Viri 'Standard' 28gm 2.7mm shot at 385m/s pushed by felt wad generates AGP of 650bar. You would not want him to blow up that from Purdey's piece, do ya?

I believe, but I could also be wrong, the Not for Ball on one bbl only is correct. This is the only bbl showing both a bore & muzzle marking, indicating the right bbl was cyl bore. To load a ball which could be indiscrimanately fired from either bbl, it would need to clear the choke dia of the left bbl, the one marked Not for Ball. I have an old Birmingham proofed junker from the same era which is cyl bored in both bbls & carries only the one ga marking & does not carry the not for ball on either bbl. After the word choke replaced this mark I believe in the case of a dbl with one bbl bored cyl "Choke" appeared only on the one bbl with choke. These marks applied to the individual bbl on which they were stamped.

As per Jagermeister, if you can get the Eley Grand Prix 26g load - get it. I have been using it as a game load for years in my 16bores and it does the job nicely.

I prefer no.6 shot. It has sufficient striking energy at normal game ranges and provides a fuller pattern than no.5 when using lighter loads.

2 Piper, you're correct on the "not for ball" marking--assuming the barrel not so marked was originally cylinder. But the word "choke" didn't exactly replace "not for ball"--although it's pretty close, and it appears that the meaning of the "choke" proofmark changed somewhat over time. Up through the rules of 1904, all barrels with choke were supposed to be so marked. But under the rules of 1925, the marking was optional between 004-008 constriction, obligatory if more than 008. I can't find it stated anywhere, but apparently under the 1925 rules, the "choke" proofmark couldn't be used if the barrel had less than 004 constriction. I have a pair of Army & Navy guns made in 1933. Both have about 005 constriction in the right barrel, and both have left barrels tighter than 008. Only the left flat is marked "choke".

Small bore, I go back and forth between 6 and 5 shot for pheasants. Sometimes I opt for 4s. In a 12 gauge, I don't think it makes a lot of difference unless the wind is up, and then I like the heavier shot. Whether it really matters quantitatively I'm not sure, but it makes me feel better.

In a 16, the number of shot in a #6 load might be a bigger advantage. Have to think about that.

Brent

When I was shooting a lot of pheasants with 16's, I seldom used 5's. Not because they aren't deadly on roosters, but being limited to no more than 1 1/8 oz in the guns I was shooting (less than that, if I was using a Brit 16), the pattern gets pretty thin even in a tight choke. Actually, I like Brit 6's (about 6 2/3 by American standards) a lot, at least in the open barrel over pointing dogs. Heavier load of American 6's in the tight barrel.