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Joined: Apr 2002
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Sidelock
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I am tempted by a German Drilling with 65 mm 12 ga barrels over 9.3x74R. I am having difficulty justifying it, however, for hunting in New England and Pennsylvania where small game and deer seasons are not open at the same time.
Any ideas as to how it would be useful? I am concerned, for example, with legal problems with having the rifle barrel in the field, even if I was not carrying rifle ammunition, if I used the Drilling for small game in PA. I have found Game Officers there to be less than understanding.
Similarly, 65 mm 12 ga slugs don't seem available, making it simply a single shot during deer season.

Last edited by vangulil; 11/10/18 11:26 PM.
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I use one for coyote hunting it is nearly perfect for tight cover. Mine is a 16/16/6.5x58R Sauer. I load 1 oz on NP BB's for close in coyotes and 90gr HP's in the rifle for those times they hang up out a ways, it will shoot sub MOA at 200 yards. I've been known to put a couple loads of Bismuth 6's in it on the hike back from a coyote stand for Pheasants and Ducks, nice to pop a cottontail for the pot also.

I also have a 16/16/7x57R for big game, where I hunt in the Midwest grouse and snowshoes are open during deer season, so it works well there. I also bought 20 boxes of 2 1/2" 16ga Brenneke's a few years back.

Personally I find the 16ga drilling to be a much nicer handling than those with double 12's up.

Rifles are legal to have in the field for coyotes and other predators in most of the states. In fact one of my buddies was looking seriously at a 20/20/25-35(6.5x52R) for a primary upland gun because he runs into so many coyotes while chasing birds. It got bid up beyond his reach.

I shoot a couple combo guns for coyote hunting also a 12/5.6x50R and 12/22 Savage Highpower(5.6x52R), with a single 12ga barrel they handle pretty nice.


After the first shot the rest are just noise.
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First I suggest you contact the chief law enforcement officer with the PA Game Commission via letter and include a copy of the photos/drawings of the various types of German firearms. Address your desire to use a drilling or other combination gun legally in PA but indicate your concerns.
We did the same thing in Ohio two years ago and found that the Ohio Division of Wildlife chief law enforcement officer agreed that there was no problem using a combination firearm for hunting deer, etc. as long as only the correct ammo legal for what was being hunted was carried. He then sent a communication to each Supervisor at the five Wildlife District offices and ask them to communicate with all of their game protectors that a combination gun was legal to hunt with as long as the ammunition carried was allowed for the game hunted. Prior to this some of the field officers did not believe it was legal to hunt with a drilling, etc.
Ohio does not allow bottle neck cartridges for deer hunting however after some campaigning by many sportsmen, Ohio agreed to allow an expanded list of straight wall cartridges for deer hunting. Now straight walled rifle cartridges are legal to use from a minimum of .357 to a maximum of .50.
You are correct that using a combination firearm for small game and deer at the same time may not be legal in some states.
Ohio does not allow small game hunting during the regular firearm deer season- first week. It is legal to hunt feather or fur with a combination gun during the open small game season here. The only exceptions are wild turkeys and waterfowl cannot be hunted with a rifle.
I had a Merkel over/under 16 bore/ 9.3X 72R that I hoped to hunt deer with last year. It was legal to carry and use. I used the Merkel with both a slug in 16 bore and rifle ammo for 9.3X72R. It was a successful hunt with a great memory!
Communicate with the game department and encourage others to do the same if they have a desire to use a combination firearm for hunting in your state.
I wish Ohio would allow the use of bottle neck cartridges for deer hunting.
Someday- maybe??
Good Luck!
Jim

Last edited by ohiochuck; 11/11/18 10:18 PM.
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I wonder how or if the Einstecklauf(insert) works into the Game Commission's equation/plan?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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vangulil,
I suggest you examine the drilling closely for waffenampt stamps that indicate issue to the Luftwaffe. These drillings were chambered in 12ga and 9.3x74R, which was not the most common combination, at the time. If it is a Luftwaffe drilling it would bring a good price, especially if complete with its case and accessories. The first thing to check would be the make, if it is not a Sauer, it is not a Luftwaffe drilling. The booklet put out by Pa. Fish and Wildlife may have the answer to your question. I also find 12 ga. drillings much less responsive than 16 ga.
Mike

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Thanks for all the suggestions. If I decided to proceed further with the Drilling, they will be helpful.

Leonard

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I use my Krieghoff drilling for hunting, but I sure would hate to wreck a nice quail hunt by shooting a deer smile

Also
Slugs
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/brenneke...br-p-27773.aspx

Last edited by skeettx; 11/12/18 12:12 PM.

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Unfortunately, the drilling that I have been thinking about is a 65 mm 12 ga. Brenneke slugs loaded in 65 mm 12 ga shells seem to be no longer available, just in 65 mm 16 ga.

Last edited by vangulil; 11/12/18 11:45 PM.
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vangulil,
Check for 67.5mm Brenneke slugs. I have 16 ga Brennekes that I brought back in 1982, and are 67.5mm. They were specifically intended to be useable in both chamber lengths, and so stated on the box. In the case of 12 ga.,I believe the "short" chamber was actually longer than 2 1/2 ". Your problem may be one of misunderstanding. The recent influx of 16 ga. 2 1/2" 65mm shells resulted from specific requests from American users of German guns, not because 67 1/2mm shells weren't useable. If you can find 67 1/2 mm, you might want to give them a try.
Mike

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They are also available from Fiocchi:

Fiocchi Slugs

Gunwolf

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Sidelock
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Thanks to everyone for the information on 67.5 mm 12 ga slugs. It makes the Drilling I am interested in much more usable.

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I know the laws are different here in Canada, but I took my drilling hunting for the first time this year. I didn't connect, but I had 2 barrels of buckshot loaded for close up deer I may jump on the way in, or if one were to appear under the stand inside 20 yards. The 7x65R was for everything else.

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If my memory of PA game laws is correct, you could probably be OK hunting during deer season with a drilling because coyotes are also open at that time. If you carried a box of the "Dead Coyote" shells for the shotgun, you'd probably be ok. Similarly, slug loads and rifle ammunition would be an OK combo as both are legal for deer.
The problem with that, besides a thick-headed WCO (game warden) would be that saying "I don't have any birdshot on me" would invite a body search so the warden could "make sure".
Thing is, during deer season you probably couldn't carry buckshot for the coyotes because as I recall is buckshot is illegal for use on deer in PA (except, possibly, some of the more suburban counties).
Similarly, you could probably carry rifle ammunition as well as birdshot during the small game season prior to deer season (like, now) so long as bear was open and you had a bear permit. Actually, hunting bear with slugs in the drilling would be a good match, especially if you were one of the standers on a drive. Sorta like being a stander for wild boar.
After deer season closed, though, you'd probably have to leave the rifle ammo home, though you might be able to weasel through with the coyote hunting thing.

For me in Maine, the drilling is the "perfect" November gun, because all small game and deer are open this month. I can load two birdshot and one rifle and be good to go. OTOH, when on a moose hunt (if not a permittee or subpermittee) the best policy is to leave anything with a rifled barrel home. The permittee and subpermittee are the only people who really can legally have a rifle.


fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Dave
Your information on deer and small game seasons in Maine led me to check the seasons in Vermont and New Hampshire, where I have family connections, some dairy farmers with much woodland, and hope to hunt next year after I retire. Hunting in NE PA has lost much of its appeal to me, especially on the overcrowded State Game Lands during deer season.
Both Vermont and New Hampshire have small game seasons, including grouse, open during deer seasons. A reasonable excuse to buy a drilling.
Thanks for the idea.

Last edited by vangulil; 11/17/18 10:12 PM.
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FWIW, I was invited the the NY Southern Zone deer opener this past weekend at a friends camp in Sullivan County. There area has deer, bear and grouse so I wanted to bring a drilling.

The NYS hunting Syllabus states shotguns "Must be 20 gauge or larger and fire a single projectile. Rifling in the barrel or choke is allowed."

I wasn't sure of the status of a drilling so I called the DEC for that area, the officer wasn't sure, he checked and called me back telling me it was fine, gave me his name to refer to if there was a problem with a field officer.

I brought it but used a Savage 99 instead as deer were hard to come by. Plenty of track but all at night, no daytime movement.


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I once blew a chance for a triple on deer. I was hunting with a Greifelt 12/12/8X57JR drilling on the back of my property in West Tennessee. It was late in the season, and does tend to congregate. As I walked down a logging road, I suddenly noticed movement on my right and a small herd of does started running across the trail in front of me.

The daily limit on does in my part of the state is three, so I emptied the gun, two Brenneke slugs and a 186 grain soft point bullet. When the smoke cleared, however, only one deer was down, and it proved to be the victim of the rifle barrel.

There was a lot of piles of slash in the area, left over from a recent timber harvest, so searching through them was time consuming and I'm sure not as thorough as should have been, and turned up nothing.

I have never had such an opportunity again and never will, since my days of walking through the woods are unfortunately over.








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My answer depends on whether I am after a trophy buck or not...not sure I will risk a rare opportunity without a fast backup shot if needed. I usually take the bolt action '06, but have killed deer with the 8x57 barrel of my drilling.
Steve

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here is a 8x57JR buck. open sights at around 50-60yards.

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xausa,
On more than one occasion, I have tripled on deer(Roe)with an o/u combination gun, reloading for the last two. The "trick" is to be far enough away and make sure they( at least the first two) fall in their tracks. A "report", in the distance may make them look, but not run away. If you shoot one, but it runs, they all run. If you shoot one and it falls, the others may look, then start eating again. This is for the end of the season, when you have to fill the shooting plan.
Mike

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