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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13 |
Well, the weather has improved and I took it out today. I shot it well and it is now a keeper. I bought the lead tape and stuck it on the bottom rib. I forgot to weigh it but It probably weighed a total of 1 1/2 oz. It only moved the point of balance a half inch forward. It is still behind the hinge pin however it felt better and I enjoyed shooting it. I have not pulled the butt plate however I realized it has the spring activated roll up sling so I have a feeling I will have to live with the lead tape. I will pull it tomorrow to see but I have a feeling some black paint is as good as it is going to get. Thanks for your help.
So many guns, so little time!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1127
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1127 |
Don't sweat the paint, Milt. Pretty is as pretty does. It matters not how good a gun looks if you cannot shoot it well.
Way to go ..........SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1 |
Milt, Brownells used to sell a product to blacken solder, might check there or probably it was just a chemical that would turn lead black.
I learn something every day, and a lot of times it's that what I learned the day before was wrong
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13 |
Thanks Stan. Its on the bottom anyway. I'll just shoot low birds.
And James, you are right and Amazon has it but it contains acid among other nasty things and I think at this point it does not really show that much. If I ever sell it, I will just take it off. It might work for the next shooter.
This has been an interesting experiment in weight distribution. Where is Rocketman?
Best to you all.
Milt
Last edited by builder; 01/05/19 10:37 PM.
So many guns, so little time!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,688 Likes: 31
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,688 Likes: 31 |
An interesting video on Youtube of Nick Holt demonstrating Purdey's balanc e and promoting a replica he has commissioned costing 250 ( $320??). Seems expensive for a posh triangular wedge of wood.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71 |
What is actually meant by balance ? Yes we all know that the gun is "supposed to balance on the joint pin , but why ?
I think you have to consider so many points, length of stock , length of barrel , type of action . Most modern O/U's with multi chokes seem barrel heavy , so weighting the stock to balance will make the gun very heavy .
Do you personally like the gun to be barrel heavy so that it "swings better " or may be slightly stock heavy so that the gun "prods"? for that quick instinctive point and pull shot .
I have always thought that a gun handles best when the weight seems to be between your hands when mounting , so that the for hand does not have to carry the gun .This point is not always the same as the accepted balance point so many talk of .
Just a personal though , disagree if you like but like so many things shotgun related , that have been accepted as "fact ", having no real basis in anything other than a theoretical ideal, often repeated by authors, so passing into gun lore .
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1127
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1127 |
Rocketman has got the skinny on shotgun handling characteristics better than anyone I've ever sat and talked with. The biggest revelation to me, years ago when Don explained it to me as he spun a little .410 S x S I had been given, was that overall weight is not nearly as important to handling as is where that weight is located in the gun.
If the majority of the mass is in the action, and it has short barrels, struck well off at the muzzles, and not very dense wood, it will move quicker between the hands. Or, have a low moment if inertia. OTOH, the little .410 he spun was quite eye opening, with it's 28", fairly thick barrels, longer than usual for a .410 buttstock, and alloy action, the weight is more "out on the ends", you might say. This makes it handle like a much heavier gun, and probably explains the reason it is so easy for me to shoot well. He actually said the "numbers" almost perfectly matched that of a nice English 12b game gun.
When the weight is on the "ends", an object responds slower to a change in it's motion, or lack of motion. When the weight is concentrated in the middle, or between the hands, it responds much quicker to that change of motion, or state. These guns we call "lively", or even "whippy".
My 31 1/2" Perazzi is stocked in fairly dense walnut. Even though it weighs 9 lbs. + it handles like a dream for me. The way it moves belies it's overall weight. No one that has ever shot it thinks it weighs as much as it does.
Just some of my thoughts too, gunman.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13 |
This was a last ditch effort to keep the gun. I had been looking for a Manufrance ideal for a while and when this one came up I was thrilled, especially since it was a 20g. You usually see 12 and 16g guns. I was missing a lot of clay birds and once that happens you start looking for why. in this case you could feel it was front end light. After adding weight I was surprised how little the balance point moved but it did feel better in the hands. I was still disappointed expecting more of a shift. At the course I shot it well. All's well that ends well. I have enjoyed this discussion as I can see many have and I have learned a lot.
I think this gun does not have the weight between the hands but is unbalanced toward the rear. Whether the stock wood is too dense is a question for me but since it has the wind up sling built in it is probably not wise to mess with the stock. It works for me now and I am going to leave it the way it is.
I am not happy with the design of the safety for hunting so it will be a clays gun. I think it is too heavy for a 20g. for upland hunting anyway.
So many guns, so little time!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1127
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1127 |
Milt, it sounds as if you still have some issues with the gun that you are not really pleased with. Sometimes we find that what we think we want really doesn't work out as well as we had hoped it would. In a case like that it is important not to be hardheaded, but to move it on to someone else and continue to work towards that prefect gun. It's out there, I promise.
If I'm reading too much into your posts, I apologize.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13 |
I am enjoying the gun Stan however I don't think I will be competing with it. I will keep it as long as I enjoy shooting it and then like the Darne I owned I will move it along. Everyone has different body shape and technique and it may work for someone else very well. I am drawn, like many here, to what some may call odd guns. I have had a few, enjoyed them and moved on. Sometimes you don't shoot them well and sometimes the thrill wears off. It is all part of the fun.
I do have some "perfect" guns and they will be with me as long as I can shoot. My beat up F grade LeFever and my Fox CE come to mind.
I do appreciate your concern and I take your thoughts seriously.
So many guns, so little time!
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