doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com shotgun balance

I don't know the technical terms however I have a gun that I don't shoot well but I want to keep it. It is a Manufrance Ideal grade one twenty gauge that weighs 6 lbs 4 oz with 27.5" barrels.

I am pretty darn sure the problem is the barrels are too light or you might say the muzzle end is too light. I was thinking of putting some temporary weight on the front hanging from the barrels but then I don't know how to permanently add the weight if that works.

I also thought about removing weight in the butt stock but I am not sure if that would do the trick and that is permanent.

Any thoughts?

Try a slip on leather barrel sleeve like the ones made by Galco and others. Adds about 3 oz to the front of the gun just ahead of the forend. Also helps shooting sporting clays in the summer when the barrels get too hot.

If you go the route suggested above be careful to buy the weighted hand protector (some call it a barrel guard). Look at the description closely, many are not weighted.

SRH

Rats, I have a 12g. weighted one.

Maybe I can rig up something on the regular 20g. one to give it weight.

Do you already have a regular 20 ga. protector?

If so, sheet lead slid inside it might work. If you need some I've got lots of it, salvaged from the walls of a decommissioned X-ray room. Just let me know.

SRH

I am surprised that your Ideal 20 gauge weighs as much as 6 pounds 4 ounces.

Thanks Stan. Mighty kind of you. Maybe I will melt some lead shot into a sheet.

I am not sure how far I can slide the protector onto the barrels because of the C shaped doohicky that hangs off the bottom rib to connect the sling that pulls out of the bottom of the butt stock. That puts it out of reach of my left hand so I will rig up some wire to hold it in case it slides. At least the weight will be more forward.

If it works, then I have to figure out something more permanent and aesthetically pleasing.

Daryl,

Good point. I used my notes but will reweigh it. It does sound awful heavy for a 20g. Ideal.

Use plumbers tape, AKA strip lead. Use a bit of rubber cement to stick it in the lower barrel channel. You can try differing amounts and locations 'til you find the right formulae. I would then hollow the butt to balance the gun. You can always correct with a little extra weight in the butt if you over bore.

I have several guns with hollowed butts - no problems in over 25 years.

the gun does weigh 6 lbs 4 oz. I was able to find lead tape used for golf clubs that would seem to be an easy way to test it in the field. Thank you for your idea.

I did attach lead under the barrel protector and it did seem to work however I could not get it into the right position since the weight blocked it sliding all the way up and it blocked my view of the barrels.

Not sure if the golf tape is heavy enough to work but if it does I can find the right feel and then mark the balance point. I could then remove wood in the butt under the butt plate and match the balance point.

Does that sound like a good plan?

Well, the weather has improved and I took it out today. I shot it well and it is now a keeper. I bought the lead tape and stuck it on the bottom rib. I forgot to weigh it but It probably weighed a total of 1 1/2 oz. It only moved the point of balance a half inch forward. It is still behind the hinge pin however it felt better and I enjoyed shooting it. I have not pulled the butt plate however I realized it has the spring activated roll up sling so I have a feeling I will have to live with the lead tape. I will pull it tomorrow to see but I have a feeling some black paint is as good as it is going to get. Thanks for your help.

Don't sweat the paint, Milt. Pretty is as pretty does. It matters not how good a gun looks if you cannot shoot it well.

Way to go ..........SRH

Milt, Brownells used to sell a product to blacken solder, might check there or probably it was just a chemical that would turn lead black.

Thanks Stan. Its on the bottom anyway. I'll just shoot low birds.

And James, you are right and Amazon has it but it contains acid among other nasty things and I think at this point it does not really show that much. If I ever sell it, I will just take it off. It might work for the next shooter.

This has been an interesting experiment in weight distribution. Where is Rocketman?

Best to you all.

Milt

An interesting video on Youtube of Nick Holt demonstrating Purdey's balanc e and promoting a replica he has commissioned costing �250 ( $320??).
Seems expensive for a posh triangular wedge of wood.

What is actually meant by balance ? Yes we all know that the gun is "supposed to balance on the joint pin , but why ?

I think you have to consider so many points, length of stock , length of barrel , type of action .
Most modern O/U's with multi chokes seem barrel heavy , so weighting the stock to balance will make the gun very heavy .

Do you personally like the gun to be barrel heavy so that it "swings better " or may be slightly stock heavy so that the gun "prods"? for that quick instinctive point and pull shot .

I have always thought that a gun handles best when the weight seems to be between your hands when mounting , so that the for hand does not have to carry the gun .This point is not always the same as the accepted balance point so many talk of .

Just a personal though , disagree if you like but like so many things shotgun related , that have been accepted as "fact ", having no real basis in anything other than a theoretical ideal, often repeated by authors, so passing into gun lore .

Rocketman has got the skinny on shotgun handling characteristics better than anyone I've ever sat and talked with. The biggest revelation to me, years ago when Don explained it to me as he spun a little .410 S x S I had been given, was that overall weight is not nearly as important to handling as is where that weight is located in the gun.

If the majority of the mass is in the action, and it has short barrels, struck well off at the muzzles, and not very dense wood, it will move quicker between the hands. Or, have a low moment if inertia. OTOH, the little .410 he spun was quite eye opening, with it's 28", fairly thick barrels, longer than usual for a .410 buttstock, and alloy action, the weight is more "out on the ends", you might say. This makes it handle like a much heavier gun, and probably explains the reason it is so easy for me to shoot well. He actually said the "numbers" almost perfectly matched that of a nice English 12b game gun.

When the weight is on the "ends", an object responds slower to a change in it's motion, or lack of motion. When the weight is concentrated in the middle, or between the hands, it responds much quicker to that change of motion, or state. These guns we call "lively", or even "whippy".

My 31 1/2" Perazzi is stocked in fairly dense walnut. Even though it weighs 9 lbs. + it handles like a dream for me. The way it moves belies it's overall weight. No one that has ever shot it thinks it weighs as much as it does.

Just some of my thoughts too, gunman.

SRH

This was a last ditch effort to keep the gun. I had been looking for a Manufrance ideal for a while and when this one came up I was thrilled, especially since it was a 20g. You usually see 12 and 16g guns. I was missing a lot of clay birds and once that happens you start looking for why. in this case you could feel it was front end light. After adding weight I was surprised how little the balance point moved but it did feel better in the hands. I was still disappointed expecting more of a shift. At the course I shot it well. All's well that ends well. I have enjoyed this discussion as I can see many have and I have learned a lot.

I think this gun does not have the weight between the hands but is unbalanced toward the rear. Whether the stock wood is too dense is a question for me but since it has the wind up sling built in it is probably not wise to mess with the stock. It works for me now and I am going to leave it the way it is.

I am not happy with the design of the safety for hunting so it will be a clays gun. I think it is too heavy for a 20g. for upland hunting anyway.

Milt, it sounds as if you still have some issues with the gun that you are not really pleased with. Sometimes we find that what we think we want really doesn't work out as well as we had hoped it would. In a case like that it is important not to be hardheaded, but to move it on to someone else and continue to work towards that prefect gun. It's out there, I promise.

If I'm reading too much into your posts, I apologize.

SRH

I am enjoying the gun Stan however I don't think I will be competing with it. I will keep it as long as I enjoy shooting it and then like the Darne I owned I will move it along. Everyone has different body shape and technique and it may work for someone else very well. I am drawn, like many here, to what some may call odd guns. I have had a few, enjoyed them and moved on. Sometimes you don't shoot them well and sometimes the thrill wears off. It is all part of the fun.

I do have some "perfect" guns and they will be with me as long as I can shoot. My beat up F grade LeFever and my Fox CE come to mind.

I do appreciate your concern and I take your thoughts seriously.

Understood, Milt. Again, I was not meaning to suggest what you should do.

Maybe I should seriously consider the phrase, "Physician, heal thyself" !! I can't seem to let them go once I buy one. I fear post-partum depression, I guess.

SRH

I did not take it that way. I have the same feelings. I almost always have seller's remorse. I rarely if ever have buyers remorse. I have sworn not to buy another safe so I do sell them.

I have a BSS sidelock with 28" barrels that I don't shoot well and because it is in new condition I don't want to adjust it to fit me. I have been thinking of selling it for years but cannot part with it yet. Why do I keep it? I have no idea. Someone here bought my 12g. 28" but the 20 is more dear.