doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lowering limit on mallards in Atlantic Flyway

Atlantic flyway nesting geese population is down. Might be the same for Mallards. Local ducks are not included in migratory nesting numbers. I�ve seen local geese go from none in my youth to thousands. Ducks as well. But they are a drop in the bucket compared to the migration numbers. In fact like most areas local geese are a pest which gets early hunting pressure to trim their numbers back.

If they keep increasing the price of licenses they won�t have to worry about lowering limits. That�s my knee jerk reaction

I haven't hunted waterfowl for years because I don't really care to eat ducks or geese. But the politics behind hunting is very important to me. And it seems to me that those of you who do hunt waterfowl should be asking yourselves some questions here.

The number of active waterfowl hunters in the U.S. has dropped by at least 50% since the early 1950's, and the percentage decline in waterfowl hunter numbers is even greater in Canada. And according to this study, as recently as 2015, the problem was an increasing number of ducks and a decreasing number of hunters:

https://deltawaterfowl.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/LoomingCrisis.pdf

You all were fed the line of crap that License price increases over the years would make things better. Then we also had the promise or Big Lie that going to lead-free ammunition would reduce the population declines that were occurring in the 1960's. And supposedly, going to that much more expensive and ballistically inferior shot did increase the populations.

Yet now you guys are being told something else again by the Fish and Game Biologists. I saw what my own State Game Commission did to ringneck pheasant and deer hunting through mismanagement. As someone already said, it seems that the decision has already been made, and this survey is just a formality so they can say a majority of you agreed with it.

People forget that if it wasn't for the VOLUNTARY restraint exercised by sportsmen, there would be no migratory waterfowl left to argue over.

Most flyways have 2 management choices available to them.
Smaller bag, or fewer days.

If your common species are doing well, but another is doing poorly, they won't cut days to lower the bag on the struggling specie.

I am in the Mississippi flyway. People are so accustomed to a 60 day season, and 6 birds, God help the USFWS when we get a bad spring and dry summer and have to go back to 30 days and 4 ducks.

I knew Eastern Shore goose numbers (excluding greater snows) were bad. Duckhunter.net has all kinds of management discussions on these things. Lots of east coast watermen hanging out there.

Got the same survey here in Virginia.
When I first started duck hunting here in central Virginia,in the mid-60's a mallard was a trophy duck-- nearly all "big" ducks bagged were blacks, and, over the years the ratio reversed. Now, mallards dominate with only a very modest increase in blacks, despite a greatly reduced limit on blacks.
If one takes the time to read the USFW's rationale for the proposal, one will how flawed the it is-----for example, they openly state that mallard populations have decreased less than 1% annually since the early 2000's in the Atlantic Flyway compared to three other species--only ONE of which has a significant breeding population in the Atlantic Flyway! Secondly, the Flyway kill aren't local birds-- most are migrants---they're NOT locals, as we seldom kill mallards until late December.
Keith made some very valid points, and I urge all to read the flawed proposal on the USFW's website. I, for one will continue to spend a lot of money (largely wasted) on the sport--under protest. If they want to try another useless tack they can re-institute the stupid "point system", and eliminate hens from the bag limit.

They used to shoot them in the spring, because, well you know, they were only migrating through anyway.

So did we have a bad spring and a dry summer that is responsible for this proposed lower limit?

I checked the National Weather Service for data on precipitation for Pennsylvania and Ohio last week, because I can't recall wetter year. Spraying any herbicides or pesticides was a waste of time and money because we rarely got three consecutive dry days, even in the normally dry late summer period. Everyone is complaining how hard it was to do any roofing or painting outdoors. Several years ago, when we had drought conditions, it was blamed on Man-made Global Warming, and we were warned that this was our future. So are they telling us that Donald Trump fixed that problem? According to NWS data, my area is 200% to 300% above normal rainfall for the last 180 days. The map showed above normal precipitation for much of the country east of the Mississippi. So it wasn't my imagination.

I always see numerous flocks of ducks and geese on local lakes and rivers, including several flocks of mallards a few days ago. Geese are at pest levels, and I wish someone would exterminate them and give them to people who won't work in place of Food Stamps. I can't tell the difference between a migrating and non-migrating duck or goose until I see them still hanging around in mid-winter looking for open spots on icy lakes and ponds. But I wish I enjoyed eating them because there is no doubt in my mind that the populations are healthy in my area. My freezer would be full if we had near as many pheasants and ruffed grouse.

So what are the reasons behind this? Where is BrentD when we need someone to make up answers and denigrate us for asking valid questions?

Keith, I am not in the Atlantic flyway.
I am on the eastern edge of the Mississippi.
I am also active in flyway management. I go to the CWAC meetings Citizens wildlife advisory committee, and follow the discussion at our flyway council meetings.

It's very likely the producer states and provinces in that flyway had poor production and downstream counts are dropping.
Also, as I manage about 20 wood duck boxes, whatever quantity of woodies aggregate further south from here, their recovery is entirely due to sportsmen.

Sportsmen that chose to grudgingly protect the resource when it was almost gone.

People that see migratory waterfowl at their terminus don't always have a clear picture of what the flyway is experiencing upstream. A terrible (INO) management example, is the special consideration AR and LA are given because of the economic effect duck hunting has there.

Just spent $125 for a 10/day nonresident hunting license for waterfowl including a $13 state duck stamp. I�ll hunt one day next week with my three sons who have also bought licenses. I�ll shoot my 10 gauge Parker with handloaded bismuth shot ($150 for 10 lbs). This is all my choice but I can�t help feel I�ve been bent over by some Great Oz. I�m 58 and my first hunting+fishing license was $12. You did not need a license until you were 13. It�s becoming a rich mans activity.

eeb;
I'm 80 & my first Hunting & Fishing license was $5.00. The first duck hunting I ever did ducks were on a point system, each kind of duck had a certain number of points. The first duck you killed which put you = to or over 100 points made your limit. As I recall Mallards were 30 points & Redheads were 90 points. I believe at that point Canvasbacks were either totally off limits or were 100 points. The problem here was two people could be hunting together & one man could have three mallards & a redhead while the other had one mallard & a redhead, yet both had their limit because one shot the redhead too early in the hunt. I don't recall how many points a Woodie had then but was rather high.

I have not eaten a large variety of ducks but I really liked woodies & redheads, mallards not near as good to me. The woodies were battered & fried about like a chicken. Didn't taste like a chicken, but was very good eating.