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Joined: Apr 2018
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 316 Likes: 70 |
I would appreciate input regarding a GB listing, https://www.gunbroker.com/item/790589344it's a lower grade Simson Jager; Herold marked 12 gauge that appears to be in quite decent condition. I've done the research available here (thank you raimey!), and see that Suhl nitro markings place it 1912 or later, and the lack of date stamps put the latest production in 1923. serial #9481 gun is in a typical modern gun shop, and they don't seem to have a great deal of knowledge of doubles. they have provided additional photos that show a factory muzzle, and a metric scale showing 72.4cm barrel length (ad says 28.5 inched). also show a proper horn butt plate with typical worm holes. I've asked about weight, and a description of the bores and chambers. gun seems a bit pricey, but I'm accustomed to every old double being "rare & valuable" these days. these guns have always looked interesting to me - and I'm curious as to what you see? thanks, tom
"it's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards." lewis carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
A couple of questions I always asked myself when buying an old gun.
Main one being can I recoup my investment if for some reason I can't shoot it or just decide for what ever reason I decide to part ways with it ?
Another one being how hard is it going to be to get it fixed should it break down ?
At the price it's listed at a resale is going to be at a substantial loss.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 641 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 641 Likes: 3 |
Not a bad looking gun (I enjoy the German made doubles), but as Joe said, it looks to be higher priced than it's legitimate value. However, if the gun holds interest for you and you have no qualms about investment value, it looks to be in nice shape (hard to tell about the bores, however). I'm sure many of us have bought guns priced higher than their worth and if the gun pleases you personally, I would say those purchases are worth it.
That said, I like the POW grip and the scalloped receiver...wood isn't ugly either! Good luck!
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469 Likes: 386
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469 Likes: 386 |
I like the gun as well. You know it's going to have been very well made. If it were me it would turn on the following points:
How good are the barrels/bores? How well does the gun fit? What if anything do I have to spend money on to be able to hunt with it?
My guess is that the gunshop knows little about the gun and took a stab in the dark as to pricing. I'd educate myself a bit about what the selling price should be in a fair marketplace and then base my offer on that, prepared to explain why I am coming up with that number. If you base your offer on his price, you legitimize his price in his mind.
Edit to add: Re the price. At $1300 I think it's high but not crazy high. jOe says it would have to be sold at a substantial loss if you didn't like it. So my question would be what's a substantial loss on a $1200 or $1300 gun? $500???
I'm not trying to throw money away but any old gun purchase is a bit of a gamble and we spend $500 lots of ways pretty easily.
Personally I'd be happy with a purchase in the $800 to $1000 range if I was after the gun.
Last edited by canvasback; 01/15/19 08:59 AM.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 450
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 450 |
I think jOe might be right about the price. I think the opening bid is at a the high end for that gun. The buy it now price will be very hard to ever recover. It comes down to brand name which this gun has only a modest value. Same gun with Parker on its sides would be much easier sell later for more money. When I looked I at these obscure makes of guns it has to be something I really want own to even interest me at all. You could buy it as a shooter, if it fits you well and is choked as you like. Any money spent altering it will be gone. Never to be recovered.
Talking with a friend I came up with some interesting numbers. There are 300-350 million guns in the US, with millions more being made every year. The number of hunters has declined by almost 50% in my lifetime. The number of people I know with interest in doubles at all, has to be down but 50% as well and they are aging quickly. The market is flooded with items for sale and will only increase over time. I dont see a market for a lot of these no name type guns long term or the market that remains will be a buyers market. That $1100 gun might be hard to sell for $800 in five to ten years and $500 in 20 years. Pristine, rare, name brand guns will hold value and interest better than this gun.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071 |
The price is quite high. They have guns like this Simson for sale here in Canada for $495.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201 |
I think the gun is over priced, but I also think the Parkers and LC Smiths are also over priced at common prices. The gun was advertised as being choked "full and modified", but the proof marks show the left barrel is choked (crown W proof mark), but constriction is not given. The right barrel is not marked as being choked. The 12 in a circle shows it had standard( for the time)12 ga. chambers; which would be "short chambered" today( proper shells are available). The terms "no name" and "obscure" have been used for this gun, but "Herold" was the house brand for Franz Jaeger and Simson is also a known name. The name on the barrels marketed the gun. The gun was built according to a very interesting Franz Jaeger patent which, according to many, is superior to many other designs, including British, French, German, and American. Except for it being 12 ga, I would be proud to own it( at a price I could stand). Mike
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
This one sold for 281 Euro: Herold on E-gun Gunwolf
Last edited by Gunwolf; 01/18/19 07:43 AM.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201 |
The link didn't work for me. Mike
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
Sorry Mike, my fault! I changed the link!
The gun is just offered on E-gun and I think, it will be Not expensive.
Cheers, Wolfgang
Last edited by Gunwolf; 01/18/19 07:45 AM.
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