doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT - Duck bill shotgun muzzle

I might add that true 37 Trench guns (WWII) are highly collectable. There weren't that many made. 37 Riot guns are not that unusual.

I'm a diehard M37 owner, but I can see in a combat situation where it might be easier to slap one round into an empty, open chambered M500 or 870 than it is to speed load an M37 for that one shot with your life on the line. The follower arms of the M37 have to be just right and touching the "roof" of the action to drop a round into position with the gun upside down for the bolt to shove it into the chamber with one motion. It can be tricky enough to do it in broad daylight without stress. Otherwise, the round must be shoved into the magazine and the action cycled back and forth to load the chamber.
My late friend Bucky carried an M37 and a 1911 in Vietnam. His preferred round was the flechette round which carried 20 steel darts in a 2.75" 12 ga. shell. Bucky wore his old boonie hat when we quail hunted and what I remembered about his old hat was he had a couple of flechette darts stuck in the band. Maybe Walt can share what he knows about the Ithaca Platypus.
Gil

Picture of Twin Brother at Dak Pek, Special Forces camp (A-242), RVN, Dec 1967 carrying a pump shotgun on a Medcap patrol. Don't know the model but it might have been M37. He didn't carry it on long range missions. Dak Pek was surrounded by 7,000'+ mountains. You went as light as possible when going out of the vale. (I flew up there once in a Fac in I think late June 1968 after a mission into Laos. It was incredible..You flew between huge green jungled mountains following the Dac Poco river with amazing rapids, and suddenly there was the dale.....yellow, on green, on mauve on purple on blue.....
https://www.amazon.com/Assault-Dak-Pek-Special-Team/dp/0804118361.



Remington 870 has been the standard shotgun for MSG's in American Embassies abroad for 50 years. It is the gun recommended for home protection by multiple USG agencies.

Foxey it was a jOke...

And Sir- you answered the question put to me in a previous post to this thread. Plus, the Browning designed Rem M17 that later became the Ithaca M37-- there is not the heavier receiver wall behind the bolt, when it is in battery, or rearward in the ejection-recocking mode- as with the M12 and the 870. That is one of many reasons I would not rely on a M37 trench or riot gun in a SHTF scenario.

My main reason for preferring a M12 over all other pumpguns extant, is that I have been shooting them for 62 plus years "hand running", and like a M-1 Garand or M-14 rifle, or a 1911-A-1 .45, I know how to field strip, shoot, reload under dark dead midnite -in the rain, snow, whatever. I don't have to think about where all the "Go-Buttons" are.

When all the piss-headed Hippies were trying to loot/destroy NG Armories, and other Stateside military installations, I was station at Quantico- and our CO passed the word that the Armory and ranges and ammo storage (including explosives) would be on a 24-7 armed patrol--we carried .45's and either M12 or the older M-97 riot issue (20" cyl bored) shotguns, many Parkerized and bearing the flaming bomb Ordnance stamp on the receiver.

I was the NCOIC on a night detail--1800 to 2400 hrs. I had to check in and out the weapons detailed above to the men on guard detail-- we carried the .45's "locked, cocked and ready to rock", but the riot shotguns carried 5 rds. in the magazine, chamber empty- if a Marine challenged an intruder, he was taught to rack a round into the chamber- but to unload his weapon after his guard detail was completed.

One of the Pfcs. was issued a WW1 surplus M97 trench gun- he racked in a round, left the hammer rearward, and came back into the duty hut and dropped it into the wood rack, muzzle up- You guessed it- the shock caused the hammer to fall- and a load of 00 buckshot went through the tin roof of the Quonset hut- also shattering a large overhead light--

Long story short- the entire Base was alerted- I told the culprit to stand fast, leave the M97 where it was, and in a heartbeat, an Officer bolted through the door, with the BN 1st. Sgt. right behind him-- I gave them a detailed description of the FUBAR, then the "Top" told me to secure and unload the weapon--

The Lt. asked "Top" how long would it take to get the roof repaired, the light fixture replaced, and a general policing of the entire facility- "Sir, Top Duall replied- with 18 years behind his hash marks, against 6 months for the "Boot Brown-Butter Bar" Lt. I can have all this squared away in 24 hours- but I have to add- it's gonna take a month of scrubbin' with them Brillo pads to get those brown stains of the cement deck"--

PS- after that, we 'shit-canned" all the M97's in the Armory- 5 maybe, if I remember- complete detail strip, we salvaged the buttstocks, forearms, magazine springs- but all receiver parts were cut up and destroyed. Hell of a note..

Yea. All of that happens about as much as a single action bar (Mod 12, 37, 31, etc) binding up. Which is practically never. The only time I�ve ever seen that issue (follower arms) on a 37 is on clapped out, abused jalopies. Any gun is going to have issues if it�s out of tune, right? Feed ramp spring bust..most all pump guns & autos are going to be busted. Happens often enough. Properly cared for, well maintained, properly tuned guns are usually 99.9% reliable.
The preferred Bear gun for a lot of years for many guides up in the AK was a cut down, extended mag 37.

Dustin, I screwed up the nomenclature. Shell "Carrier" is what I meant when I referred to "action bar". Because of the barrel of the M37, M17, is screwed into the receiver, it only needs one bar. The bayonet system employed by the 870 et al. requires two bars to prevent binding. Gil

the versions we had in the 'teams were adjustable by twisting. they were phasing them out by the 80's 90's.
they were leftovers from the river rats in delta zone.

About a year ago-area gun show-- Gent with a table of pump guns had a M12 tagged "M12 Riot Gun" $2000.00. I asked him if I could look it over, and he said "OK" M12 with a Full Choke mark on the barrel- also, the front mounted magazine tube hanger was "re-positioned" forward about 3/4" from the std. position- and the 2 mounting bosses on the barrel had been apparently ground off- as they were missing. I measured the barrel, 20&1/4"-- no choke, but the muzzle cutting must have been done by hand with a hacksaw, as it was not even and flush- No front bead, the serial number indicated aprox. 1947 mfg.. and it had the post 1939 style 14 ring forearm, but the buttstock was a pre-1935 "perch-bellied" series-- with a Pachmyer White Line pad-- It was a Model 12--but no 2K Riot series, not by a long shot.

I prefer the non-take-down version of the M12 in the riot configuration- that being the M25. Hard to find one-- but I have one- designated as my SHTF defense weapon- I keep it with a round of OO buckshot chambered, and 4 rds. in the magazine tube. I also use a 5 rd. shell carrier- on the buttstock-- If I can't stop what's trying to kill me with 10 rds. at close range with that, I'm gonna be "VSF'd" for sure.

the Platypus looked like a flat funnel.