doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Primitive Loading Tools

While my collection is not near as large as Keith's mine were also picked up individually. I am not really a dedicated collector of these, would run into them from time to time at places similar to Keith. If they sold for really Cheap I would take them home. Though not antique I did pick up my 3 Lyman Vandalia loaders at the same time/place. I actually bought them off eBay back when shipping was a lot more reasonable & the shipping was still higher than the tools.
Picked up the old Herter 72 press at a gun shop. I went to buy a set of 20 gauge dies for a Pacific press I was using at the time. He was going to have to order the die set but had this Herter press with both 12 & 20 dies for less than I could buy the Pacific dies alone so I just took it instead.
The Pacific was a single stage so the Herter served just as well & it is virtually Dyno-Mite proof.

On the flared tubes that Gil mentioned the ones I have are made in the necked portion just under the size of the shells interior diameter so the wads are squeezed a bit to assist them entering the shell without tearing the mouths. This was a big problem with paper hulls. Not sure when the wad guides with the brass fingers first came on the market, but they were a great help.

I've picked up the tools over time from Ebay mostly. Like Miller said, they were cheaper a few years ago in both shipping and costs. The 12 gauge ones are still low in price. Bidding on 20 ga. is higher. I've yet to see .410 or 28 ga. on Ebay US. Ebay.fr will have them show up from time to time. There was a Frenchman who liquidated his collection of hundreds of tools. I bought directly from him as well. Interesting that the man neither hunted nor shot but collected the tools for a long period. He was a reliable source of subgauge crimpers for a few turkey hunters.
Miller, I've recently acquired (not here yet) a 16 ga. wad compressor that is a plunger inside a spring loaded metal tube that fits inside the hull. The wooden plunger is depressed releasing the wad inside the hull. I'll post a photo when it arrives. Gil

Gil;
Look forward to seeing pictures of that one. I took a look at some of mine today.
The one I have looks just like your BGI with reversible pins. On the crimp head, it is marked "Reversible Pins for Square or Round Crimp 10" & then on another line very faintly B G I Co Pat Sept 1891 or possibly Sep 1, 1891, hard to say for certain. I believe it is identical to yours. This is actually the best crimper I have. As I said I made a 12 ga head for it but didn't make reversible pins. I just drove in roll pins & put the split on the back so a rounded side would make the crimp. Had to also make the inner sleeve which puts pressure on the top wad while crimping.

My boxed set is marked Eureka. The box is in bad condition but appears to have been made by Freeport Guin & Implement co, Bridgeport Conn.

When Gil asked what prevents the shell from spinning in the roll crimper in my second photo yesterday, I didn't have a good answer. I knew it worked but I had never questioned that aspect of its' function. I got it back out when I got home this evening and looked closer. The black casting which holds the shell head is tapered inside. A 12 gauge shell doesn't actually touch the bottom. As you put pressure on the lever to advance the shell into the roll crimp head, there is nothing but friction of the shell rim being forced down into that taper that prevents the shell from rotating. I then put a 16 gauge shell into this tool and I think the base almost hit bottom, but there was still no lateral movement of the shell head in that tapered recess. Just for kicks, I advanced that shell into the crimp head and turned the handle. The shell still didn't rotate, but the 12 gauge roll crimping head didn't allow the smaller diameter case mouth to start rolling inward, and it started to roll outward instead. Reversing the handle unscrewed it from the crimp head, and the threads appeared to be 5/16" standard. It occurred to me that it wouldn't be hard to chuck a piece of brass into my Unimat or South Bend lathe and make another crimp head that would permit this tool to be used for 16 gauge as well. There is nothing on this tool to indicate what company produced it, or where. Only a "12" stamped into the frame.

Thanks, Keith. I see it now. The second photo makes it clearer. That is a more sophisticated design compared to what one usually sees in the old crimpers, and the design accommodates different lengths of shells efficiently.
Miller, the BGI 1891 is definitely higher quality than most of the others I have from that era. The alloy or plating of the head would have been more expensive than the brass heads commonly used in some models. Good to see that there are at least three or four other folks here that find these tools fascinating and worthy of collecting. Gil

KY Jon
Amen

I have never posted this picture of me & a third cousin before. I'm the one wearing the suspenders or Braces for you Canadians.



Here is a picture of the old Church Building where this picture was made.



This building was erected in the 1830s & was used regularly for many years but has now sat idle for some time. An Uncle of mine became caretaker of it some years back. After his death, his Daughter, my First Cousin, & her Husband took it up as they were able. The Bingham branch of my family has held several Family Reunions there on the grounds. Also for some time services were held on an annual basis. Cousin Paul was the speaker on the day this picture was made, but I have also done the honors on a couple of occasions. This is located in Bedford County TN a short way from the small town of Bell Buckle, a stop on the old NC&STL railroad, now a part of CSX.

I saw this Ideal 16 ga. roll crimper on ebay today. It's the same model as my 20 ga. Seller wants a pretty penny for it. Appears to be in very good condition but I'm not that interested in it. (Maybe too good of condition.)

https://tinyurl.com/yxusgp4q

Several days ago, I wanted to post a pic of a Belding & Mull powder measure that I picked up at a flea market last Spring. I already had two of these, but they were missing the powder charge tubes, and most are found that way. This one had two charge tubes, so buying it gave me two complete measures. These could be used for measuring powder for shotshells, but they were prized by Bench Rest shooters because of their remarkable consistency. This thread is titled "Primitive Loading Tools", but many of theses tools are anything but primitive. Many have design and durability that makes them just as functional and useful now as they were when our Grandfathers used them.

Keith;
Nice looking measure. I am trying to remember just how these worked for adjusting the charge. Were these set by adjusting the cavity depth in the drop tube & then the tube removed for dumping in the case?

Primitive was truly not the best word to have used for this thread, but I couldn't really think just what to use. Perhaps just Old Time would have been better. I can remember when these B&M measures were on the market, but don't recall when they were dropped. A lot of old-time technology was very good. Look how long the Lyman powder measures have been on the market with nothing but a few Face Lifts along the way. My much later #55 is basically the same as the #5 which goes back into the 1800s I believe.

Miller, Keith,
You sure don't see much brass today like you see on the B&M measure. Nice find.

The wad tools arrived today. As Miller stated, the shell holder's mouth is slightly smaller than the ID of the paper hull so that the wad is easily shoehorned into place without tearing the paper hull. These are 2.5" paper Cheddites and they fit flush with the funnel tube which is perfect for my use. The spring plunger doesn't work as I envisioned. The end of the wad seating tool is solid so the wad doesn't go into the tube. It takes about 7 lbs. of pressure to bottom out the spring. For what purpose? I have over 500 16 Ga. Alacan Feltan-Bluestreak 5/16" ringed-wax wads. There were a few dozen more than the 500 indicated on the box. Note the MF symbol on the end of the seater. The wads go into the hull easily due to the step down function of the funnel. Insert wad into funnel end, push plunger on the wad, and Jacques your uncle.
PS: I was hoping that Mike (skeetx) would post up his Lyman belt driven roll crimpers. Unusual to say the least. They are hand turned and with the small pulley on the crimper head to build up rotation speed.

After obtaining a scanned copy of the Manufrance catalog (circa 1895) and using Google translate, it appears the above wad compressor has the spring in so that the powder isn't compacted beyond a certain weight of applied pressure. The device above it, sets the wad at a certain height, to ensure uniformity shell to shell. The one at the top, stuffs in the wad full speed ahead. Any of the above will work for my purposes with modern powder and the Alcan cards and wads. In my first post, I have photos of the same reloader, double end shot dipper and the 10 shell loading block. Manufrance eventually changed the design of the RTO to a more conventional, simpler design.