doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 19th C British Double Action Color

I have recently acquired a beautiful Henry Atkin boxlock, built around 1892.

The frame is plain with a nice 127 year old patina, but the top-lever, trigger gaurd, bottom plate and forend iron have been reblued. The trigger gaurd has a brownish hue.

I have seen lots of other guns online with similar color schemes, but it seems busy to me and odd to see a silver frame with a black bottom plate and forend iron.

I'm considering trying to remove the bluing on some or all of the parts, but I would like some opinions about the most appropriate color scheme for a refurbished British double, as well as any advice about the idea of removing bluing on engraved parts.

Thanks in advance.

Jim
[img:left]https://photos.app.goo.gl/2zKrkJeoXuL9DJjR7[/img]
[img:left]https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZFSnSJFtfwrVcjCK7[/img]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZFSnSJFtfwrVcjCK7

Woodreaux, I don't find anything unusual or offensive about the pictured gun. Matter of fact, I think it looks good. what is it about the frame you are calling plain?

DDA

Oh, yeah, welcome.

Jim, That is a beauty. Keep it as is and shoot it frequently!

Woodreaux,
Welcome to the forum.
Gunsmith Del Whitman had explained to me that while receivers on most British boxlocks were case colored, the bottom plate whould have been blued. I'm not sure regarding the forend iron.This a picture of the bottom of my Churchill boxlock. Congrats on your beautiful gun!
Karl

Thanks to both of you!

I don't mean plain in a bad way at all, just not colored. The engraving is really exquisite and in great shape for the age of the gun.

And yes, Owen, I'm definitely hoping to get in the field with it a lot. The barrels were replaced in 1973, so they should be in fine shape to shoot. I'm going to check the wall thicknesses but expect them to be in proof.

I am really just wondering if there is any standard for which parts to blue/black/brown when refurbishing a British gun of this era.

I'll probably take the advice from both of you and keep it as it is.

Thanks again




A

Thanks Karl. That is really helpful, and just the information I was looking for.

Glad I didn't go dropping the action in vinegar yet!

Your Churchill is a fine looking gun as well.
Thanks for the picture. This is my first foray into British Doubles. It's quite an experience to hold a gun that has been around so long and represents the work of such skilled craftsmen. That my Atkin was made a few doors down from my 4th great grandfather's tailor shop on Jermyn Street in London just makes it that much better.

Woodreaux,
To further explain what I was told by Del who apprenticed at Rigby,the trigger plate, action and in my case the forend iron was case hardened and the rest was blued. My trigger guard had a aged (worn) finish, so Del reblued it to match the rest properly. I believe that you trigger guard has just browned due to age. If nothing has worn from it, I'd leave it show it's earned age proudly.
Karl

Karl, I've been looking at your pictures, and I think one difference is that on my gun, the color of the blued parts don't match the barrels as well as yours do.

The other is that the trigger gaurd looks like it was blued at the same time but with a different color than everything else. It doesn't really look like it's a matter of age since it's all pretty shiny and new appearing. Here are two pictures that might show the color difference a little better.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ieboykDfG6B17hU58

Nonetheless, I'm thinking I should probably just keep it as is for now. I suspect that what I've got is a very well done amateur refinish, and it likely does not warrant a re-do just to bring it up to professional standards.

Jim, I hope the new gun shoots well for you, which is what it is all about, aside from the pleasure of appreciating the aesthetics.
I understand where you are coming from regarding the strong colours(re-done) on the bottom plate, etc but this is pretty much The Trade's method of refurbishing a gun. Personally I would not aim to modify them (heard a few horror stories in that context ) - just natural wear of the colour is probably best way to go.
I may have a case label if you need one.
Good shooting.
Harkom.

Thanks Harkom. Sounds like I just need to put some real 'handling wear' on the black bits, which I definitely hope to do a lot of.

As for the case, it needs a good working over. I'm planning to restitch some of the leather and re-line the interior. I also removed a divider to get the stock to lay flat, and I plan to customize the layout a little more before re-lining.

I would definitely be interested in a case label. Do you have a label from when they were at 2 Jermyn Street?

Here is the current state of the case: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8wZ9TxXih2bHEz4ZA

Jim,
Your case looks nicely vintage, and I would try just cleaning it up a bit before totally relining it which would take away all that nice patina. I'm aware that there may be different bluing solution formulas that give different results in finish. It appears that your trigger guard and action/trigger plate screws are the original color and that the floor plate was given a fresh bluing. I'd be inclined to use the gun and see how the new bluing would age. Please take good care of that beauty for the next generation of owners!
Karl

The English practice is to blacken the soft parts, trigger guard, bottom cover, top lever. Not my taste, but it is traditional.

Thanks everyone for the great input.

What I find a little off-putting is the juxtaposition of the great patina with the newly blacked parts. On my gun, the black parts also seem to be cold blued or something different than the barrels.

But I'm glad to know that it's done in a way that is traditional, and I plan to leave it alone, perfect being the enemy of good.

That's a good suggestion, Karl. I wasn't sure how well the lining would clean up, but I should give that a try first.

Amen on the next generation of owners. And I've already found them: Here are two of my boys checking it out the day it arrived...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NtbdLqwhsp4sCmHo7

You'll forgive their country boy, shirtless ways.

Jim,
It looks as if they are vetting the gun for you. It's great to imagine them as the next caretakers of your prize!
If you care to, tell us of the specifics of your gun.
Karl

I haven't gotten a chance to do all the measurements, but it's a Henry Atkin 12 gauge boxlock ejector, with 28 1/2" barrels IM/Full chokes, and 2 1/2" chambers.

According to the maker's ledger, it was built around 1892 or 1893 for a Mr William LS O'Brien (whom I have decided, mostly without good evidence, is the William O'Brien MP who's imprisonment sparked the first Bloody Sunday of the Irish Home Rule movement). The serial number is 630.

As a point of personal interest, my 4th great grandfather was a tailor a few doors down, at 66 Jermyn Street, from the Atkin shop location (2 Jermyn St) where the gun was built.

The current barrels were built by Atkin, Grant & Lang in 1973 and were nitro proofed for 1 1/8 ounce loads. The gun originally had 28" barrels and later a 25" set, according to the ledger.

The stock has 14 1/2 inch LOP, with a small amount of cast-on. Not perfect for me, but I have at least two left eye dominant children in my brood, so I plan to leave the stock as is and learn to shoot it well until one of them is old enough to start hunting with it, which is still some years away.

You are looking at two completely different methods of bluing/blacking plus the trigger guard was allowed to get too hot in the caustic blacking solution and has turned slightly red.
The barrels will probably never look the same as the gun furniture (base plate, trigger guard, top lever pins etc) as the barrels are cold rust blued while the furniture is hot caustic blacked or temper blued: two totally different processes.
Back in my past I tried cold rust bluing some furniture and it was not a success! And of course you can not use hot caustic on a normal soft solder constructed barrel set or you land up with a kit of parts!

Thanks for the input, Toby. I suspected that the bluing methods were different, but I couldn't understand why the trigger guard had that brown/red undertone. Your explanation makes sense.

Was the problem you had with rust bluing the furniture a matter of experience or is it your understanding that it is innately more difficult to rust blue those parts? In other words, are you suggesting that it is best to just leave the parts alone and accept the difference? Or that, if I am bothered by the difference, that I had better get a professional to do the rust bluing on the furniture for me?