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Forums10
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 29
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 29 |
Curious, with all the short chambered British and American guns that were made over a hundred years ago, and currently offered for sale, how many have had thousands of 2.75" shells shot through them over these past several decades?
Comments?
HWK
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,089 Likes: 13 |
Pretty much all of mine get low pressure 2 3/4" loads. None of them get off the shelf common 2 3/4"loads however I am sure most of my guns have had plenty of them before they were mine.
So many guns, so little time!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398 Likes: 307
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398 Likes: 307 |
Major Sir Gerald Burrard, The Modern Shotgun, Volume II, “The Cartridge”, 1955 3rd Revised Edition, p. 154 in reference to modern “star” crimped paper cases “For all practical purposes any increase in pressure due to the longer cartridge case really does not exist provided the correct powder and shot charges for a nominal 2 1/2 inch cartridge are used.” A summary of Bell's and Armbrust's study is about 1/3 down here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZIo0y746UsSRZIgRuuxwAbZjSBHitO_EanvwLYc-kGA/edit
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,960 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,960 Likes: 89 |
I never shoot the short shells. 2 3/4” in all my 2 1/2” 12’s with appropriate loads. Have never noticed any problems such as frayed case mouths, etc. and that’s many, many thousands of rounds.
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,009 Likes: 22
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,009 Likes: 22 |
My experience with one gun indicated that patterns were substantially inferior when I used 2 3/4" shells.
Bill Ferguson
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 450
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 450 |
Unless the chamber or forcing cones have been reemed out I I suspect 2 1/2” guns can handle proper 2 3/4” shells if the pressure is moderate. Problem is we need to anticipate the dumbest shooter in the world not the safest do the near universal use proper legenth loads admonition. That automaticity rules out 95% of the Gactory loads which most are too high pressure. By default dumbo buys shorter shells which almost all are safe pressure options.
In my doubles I just use low pressure loads in all of them. I cut down a thousand Federal paper cases at a time to 2 1/2” and only use low pressure loads in Federal. That way I know every Federal is safe for all my doubles. Two basic loads are 1150 FPS with an ounce and now a slightly heavier 1 1/16 ounce load which I very pleased with. A third slightly lighter load is 7/8 or 3/4 ounce for Skeet and Sporting clays. I don’t feel under gunned and don’t worry about wounded birds with clay targets. Reloading is such a gift to old double gun users.
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 21
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 21 |
Every gun must be evaluated as to its fitness to fire 2 3/4 shells. However there is a post on 16 ga.com from a article in DGJ, winter 2001 on shooging 2 3/4 shells in 2 1/2 chambers using verious modern loads with pressure recorded. Then same loDs with the forcing cone lengthen, and fily with the chamber lengthen to 2 3/4. You will be enlightened to zee how little the pressure rises. To make things more interesting the also shot 3" shells with no damage. This test only takes in consideration the action of the gun and not the old wooden stock. Worth the read and its about as scientific a study as is available.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 236
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 236 |
Every gun must be evaluated as to its fitness to fire 2 3/4 shells. However there is a post on 16 ga.com from a article in DGJ, winter 2001 on shooging 2 3/4 shells in 2 1/2 chambers using verious modern loads with pressure recorded. Then same loDs with the forcing cone lengthen, and fily with the chamber lengthen to 2 3/4. You will be enlightened to zee how little the pressure rises. To make things more interesting the also shot 3" shells with no damage. This test only takes in consideration the action of the gun and not the old wooden stock. Worth the read and its about as scientific a study as is available.
. B.Cole, reading past your cursory 1st sentence, youir “However” and theme of post shows you (wink) endorse shooting 2 3/4 and EVEN 3 " shells in 2 1/2 chambers and in barrells of any age of any type of steel or composit and with out consider that some lighter weight guns have thin walls ahead of chambers. How is it internet xperts extrapolate limited data and paint it every where with a broad brush while poopoo'ing the warnings from facory professionals on shotgun cartridge boxes. You seem to be a fox man and post on the fox site forum. Please explain why in later years savage Corp would not accept short chamber Phil guns to repair without recut to 2 3/4 and new proofing. thank youu.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103 |
It is true that per Sherman Bell's tests the pressure increase due to the longer case was not all that great. Average 738 psi. However, there was one shell tested that resulted in an increase of 1,216 psi. And if you're starting with a factory shell made to 2 3/4" pressure standards (figure maybe another 1,000 psi), then it's possible you could run into trouble shooting such loads in 2 1/2" chambers. But if you know what you're doing and if the gun is in good condition and safe to shoot to start with, you can certainly make up reloads in 2 3/4" hulls that will be perfectly safe in guns with 2 1/2" chambers. The only exception would be those guns--usually dating back to the 19th century--that have very short and sharply tapered forcing cones. In some of those, even British/European shells made up in 2 3/4" hulls but specifically for use in 2 1/2" chambers shouldn't be used. You'll usually know right away: Increased recoil, and/or the end blown off the hull. In those guns, only true 2 1/2" shells should be used.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 685 Likes: 45
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 685 Likes: 45 |
Why not just use 2 1/2" shells in 2 1/2" marked shotguns? They are readily available, same with hulls and components. Even discarded inexpensive 2 3/4" Euro hulls can be had for free and cut down. Mec makes adaptors for their reloaders to load 2 1/2" shells. I have Mec's in 16ga and 12ga set up for 2 1/2" I don't even bother with 2 3/4" shells any longer, 2 1/2" shells work just fine in my 2 3/4" guns and I never have to sort through shells to make sure I have the correct ones. Even all my waterfowl loads are in 2 1/2" using ITX or Bismuth. The only 2 3/4" loads I do any longer are 1 1/4 ounce coyote loads for my combo guns.
I doubt there are many 2 1/2" chambered shotguns used for really high volume shooting where loading or buying 2 1/2" shells would be problematic.
After the first shot the rest are just noise.
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