doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Translation help..?? Thanks.

we need a Damascus expert here - which I am decidedly not!

could 'single key', 'double key' & perhaps 'strip' have something to do with number of layers - or perhaps the appearance of the Damascus?
I just don't know.

rgds
Gunter

Here are the barrels of the Colleye System gun.

Nice set of pattern welded tubes. So Gunter are you referring to >>Laminated<<, >>Twist<< >>2 Iron<<, >>3 Iron<<??

German terms dealing w/ tubes in advert:

Bandl�ufen, Drahtl�ufen, Eisenl�ufen, Eisenrohr, Stahlrohr, etc.

The advert mentions >>feinen Damastl�ufen<< further down so I don't know?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I am not referring to anything in particular!
I did say that I don't know anything about Damascus barrels as I thought I had made clear in my message(s)!!??

I provided two (correct) translations of two separate texts relating to two separate questions in this thread and also, as an aside, gave my personal opinion of what I thought might be a possible explanation/description of a put question while stating clearly that I am NOT an expert in this particular field (Damascus barrels)!

I have no idea whether anything might relate to 'laminated' 'twist', '2iron', '3iron' or anything else - as I said, I AM NOT a Damascus expert

So why have a go at me??

I shall think twice in future before I give a translation!

I am too old to get upset for trying to help people!

Gunter

Thank you all for your time and help in translating and figuring out these texts. It is greatly appreciated.

Gunter:

Not sure how you took my post, but it seems you took it any way but the proper way. I was just trying to understand your line of reasoning & from there try to find some correlation. Also, not sure which word or phrase tripped the switch on the tracks, but it wasn't intended in that manner. I try to listen to all posters, maybe less Ford, and my record here on the BBS well supports this. I just thought you & Ford may have been there when they rolled the tubes?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/v...&fit=bounds[/img]

Boy Photobucket has really changed again.

Anyway, hopefully this link is to a legible snippet.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Ah, hah. I have found it from 1829:

>>Drahtl�ufen Ueber eine H�lse wird wie bey den Bandr�hren ein starker Eisendraht spiralf�rmig dicht an einander und mehrmahls �ber einander gewunden bis das Rohr die erforderliche St�rke erhalten hat hierauf wird das Rohr wie gew�hnlich geschwei�t und nach
Vollendung desselben die H�lse ausgebohrt Diese Gattung R�hre welche besonders in K�rnthen erzeugt werden haben den Vortheil der Gewundenen nur ist zur Erzeugung derselben zu viel Zeit erforderlich wodurch ihr Vorzug wieder verloren geht Uebrigens kann man bey den Drahtr�hren mit mehr Gewi�heit auf die G�te derselben als bey den Gewundenen und Gedrehten rechnen indem es unm�glich ist aus einer schlechten Gattung Eisen Draht zu erzeugen
Diese R�hre sind jedoch nicht mit den uralten und gleich Anfangs verworfenen Drahtr�hren canon fil� zu verwechseln welche eben so mit umgewundenem Drahte auf einem Rohre vorbereitet aber anstatt geschwei�t mit Schlagloth und Borar gel�thet wurden von der H�lse wurde auch nur die H�lfte h�chstens ausgebohrt Ueberdie� bestand der Pulversack auf einer L�nge von 10 bis 12 Zoll durchaus aus geschmiedetem Eisen Es ist sonderbar genug da� sich k�rzlich Jemand bey der �sterreichischen Artillerie gemeldet hat welcher dieses Verfahren als neu angab und auf diese Art sogar grobe Gesch�tze verfertigen wollte ohne sich dabey einer eisernen H�lse zum Umwinden und L�then des Drahtes bedienen zu wollen.......<<


https://books.google.com/books?id=43dAAAAAcAAJ&lpg=PA142&ots=e5VQIbul2F&dq=Drahtl%C3%A4ufen&pg=PA143#v=onepage&q=Drahtl%C3%A4ufen&f=false

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Wire Roughing Over a sleeve, as with the band tubes, a strong iron wire is wound spirally close to each other and several times over each other until the tube has received the required strength, then the pipe is welded and slackened as usual

This genus tubes, which are especially produced in Carinthia, have the advantage of the tortuous, but too much time is required to produce them, whereby their merit is lost again. By the way, with the wire tubes one can confidently ascertain the goodness of them To make twisted and twisted pieces, it is impossible to make wire from a bad kind of iron

These tubes, however, are not to be confused with the ancient and immediately discarded wire tubes canon fil� which are prepared with wound wire on a tube but instead of welded with pestle and borar loosened from the sleeve only half were drilled out at the most On a length of 10 to 12 inches it is certainly made of forged iron. It is curious enough that somebody recently reported to the Austrian artillery who indicated that this procedure was new and in this way even wanted to make rough guns without having to use an iron sleeve for winding and To serve soldering of the wire......

Forced, poor translation.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Very interesting reference to Carinthia.

This is the damascus sample display in the Buchsenmacher u. Jagdmuseum of Ferlach, and Carinthia is upper right



Steve's tube certainly appears to be 3 iron acid etched Bernard I, which was a very popular pattern in quality Ferlach and Suhl guns



This is a close up of the acid etched Carinthia sample, unfortunately taken through the glass of the display case



I don't see the repetitive pattern of loops in Steve's barrel, which carries the Liege provisional proof and ML in an oval - likely Manufacture Li�geoise (1866-1929) though usually a crowned ML.
17.2 should be the bore in mm = .677" or an overbored 16g? 14g is .693"