March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 298 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,373
Posts543,977
Members14,389
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 14 15
#548563 06/18/19 08:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
This is going to be a pretty puerile question but here goes. My son has been shooting my Remington 870 at sporting clays for two years since I introduced him to the sport. He doesn't get much charge out of our SxS's. He said the other day that he liked the pointing characteristic of the Remington but that he'd gone about as far as he can with the pump and at some point would like an O/U.

So, birthday coming up, I'm considering it. I don't want to spend more than about $1,500 and know zip about O/U's (and don't much like the looks of the things). But I see a lot of Browning Citori's and Beretta's for sale on gun broker. So, what would be a good o/u for him to shoot on the range. I don't think he's ever going to be a hunter (but you never can tell) and this will be a hobby, not an obsession.

Last edited by Argo44; 06/18/19 08:57 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666
Likes: 45
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666
Likes: 45
For clays, in your budget, hard to beat a Browning Cynergy CX. I have also owned a Beretta 686 and multiple Citori's. I find the latter too tall in the action. All were purchased for $1350 or less, some more used than the others. The Cynergy was practically
brand new.

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,033
Likes: 45
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,033
Likes: 45
You're on the right track.

I'd advise to avoid the temptation to go cheap.

Trigger pull is a big part of a target gun, and either the Citori or 680 series lend themselves to a trigger job IF necessary.

Not everyone can work on a Cynergy. It's a good gun, but often has lousy triggers and it's a mechanical monstrosity like a Krieghoff.

There is a lot of junk coming out of Turkey, and a fair amount of junk out of Italy.

Citori or 68x are safe bets.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 548
Likes: 54
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 548
Likes: 54
Gene,

See if you can find a Browning and a Beretta to try before you buy. The 680 series are rock solid, but you'll be buying an off the shelf gun. Just make sure the stock fits him reasonably well. If he is only planning to use it on clays, you'll probably want a heavier gun.

Ken

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
From personal experience I would recommend the Beretta. Any of them in the 680 series. Very shootable guns, and rock solid, with excellent single triggers.

My best to your son, SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
beretta and browning are the most popular...

it would be great if your son could go to a big range, where guns are for rent...kinda like drive one before you buy one...

for my money, the brownings are a best buy...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,623
Likes: 13
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,623
Likes: 13
Don't overlook the SKB's. Every bit as solid as the Japanese Brownings. Choke tubes could be added for versatility.


[IMG]
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: ed good


for my money, the brownings are a best buy...


FWIW, I would take what anybody says about the value of a particular shotgun, who calls himself restoring case colors on shotgun actions with an acetylene torch, with a grain of salt .................or less.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 441
GLS Offline
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 441
FWIW. While it's been over 8 years, I spoke with a local former gunshop owner and gunsmith who sold both Browning and Beretta O/U shotguns. As for Beretta vs. Browning, he recommended the Beretta as he saw fewer problems or customer complaints over the years compared with the Brownings. When a Beretta had issues, parts were readily available. Browning Citoris were another story. Despite a higher frequency of repairs he experienced, parts were difficult to obtain from Browning. Maybe that's been rectified since then. Here's a review of the 686 including a stripping down of action and ejectors all done with simple tools or fingers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekjbgWBecgg&t=1212s

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
I've lost count of the number of non-professional sporting clays shooters that I know, who have shot Brownings' bolting loose in a few short years, to the point that the lever opens on it's own accord after the first shot. Not uncommon to see a young guy with a rubber band stretched around the wrist, and looped around the top lever from both directions. I've never seen but one Beretta do that, and it was bought second hand by a friend. I know there are those on here who love their Brownings and have never had this issue, but I'm not exaggerating the frequency with which I've seen this over the last 15-20 years .......... and it continues. I do not have a bone to pick with Browning, just reporting my experiences.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 312
Likes: 73
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 312
Likes: 73
I have as an active, competitive trap shooter run many 680 series Beretta's for many years. You can interchange barrels quite easily--usually with just minor or no fitting issues--this says much for the diligence to manufacturing tolerances. My doubles gun is an early EELL with over 35,000 registered doubles. The Beretta line is far more versatile in my opinion.

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
They all wear out with gobs and gobs of shooting, especially if shot dry with no lubricants. Thats why we have to replace locking bolts from time to time. Not a huge deal, then they are good to go for many more rounds. Brownings arent the only ones that need new locking bolts sometimes.


Socialism is almost the worst.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Yep, they do. Some just wear out a lot faster than others.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
Stan, Would you please cite some proof showing a Browning wears out faster than any of a variety of guns,eg Beretta guns. Thanks. I just replaced a locking block in a Perazzi. It was a bit of a drag but I got it done. It wasnt blowing open but the top lever was at 6 oclock so it needed to be done. Had I not replaced it Im guessing sooner or later it would have become unsound. Do Perazzi guns wear out faster than other guns too with the same amount of shooting?


Socialism is almost the worst.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
I've belonged to a gun club with over 3000 members for years I've never heard of a Citori shooting loose.

Sounds like a Browning bash to me.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
I belong to a gun club with maybe 150 members, but I get around to a lot of big shoots and I've gotten to know lots of serious sporting clays competitors over the last 15-20 years. I knew one guy who owned three Brownings, exactly alike. It seemed like one of them was at Browning being rebolted at any time. Another owned two, for the same reason. Another young guy just keeps the rubber band on his. All these guys kept their guns clean and lubed.

What you feel about whether or not it is a "bash" means just as much to me as whether or not horseflies fart. I've got not one thing against Browning. I'm rather proud of their American history in firearms. But, the Brownings shoot loose much quicker than the Berettas. I'd bet "pink slips" on the statistics if they were available.

My only motive in mentioning it is to help Gene make a good decision for his son.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
It looked to me like your reply was more to flame Ed...

Am I the only one that tastes the "salt" ?

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: buzz
Stan, Would you please cite some proof showing a Browning wears out faster than any of a variety of guns,eg Beretta guns. Thanks. I just replaced a locking block in a Perazzi. It was a bit of a drag but I got it done. It wasnt blowing open but the top lever was at 6 oclock so it needed to be done. Had I not replaced it Im guessing sooner or later it would have become unsound. Do Perazzi guns wear out faster than other guns too with the same amount of shooting?


Buzz, there are no statistics that I am aware of, but as I said in the above post, I've seen it so often as compared to Berettas in serious shooting that I would bet pink slips on it, if it could be verified. Mine is only anecdotal evidence, but I absolutely do not have a grudge against Brownings. Just reporting my experiences over a lot of years of competitive shooting. I've had one Perazzi rebolted too, but the top lever was not opening itself. My Perazzi man at the time just suggested I have it done sooner than later. I had bought it used and it had a lot of years and miles on it before it came to me.

Maybe a thread on Shotgunworld would get some interesting replies, if you're a member. The problem is, people who really like the way Brownings shoot are hesitant to own up to their problems. Not an indictment of Browning owners, all of us are like that to some degree, I suspect.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Best "salty hOt tip" is from Ed.

Browning Citori.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: [censored
]It looked to me like your reply was more to flame Ed...

Am I the only one that tastes the "salt" ?


"Salt" may be a poor choice of words when we're talking about Brownings, don't you think?


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Ed and jOe are siding on an issue. What does that tell you?

We report, you decide.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Originally Posted By: Stan
Ed and jOe are siding on an issue. What does that tell you?

We report, you decide.



You're the only person I know that's saw Brownings Citoris held together with rubber bands...

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Well, take you a deep drink of water. It helps when you've had too much salt.

I'm gonna report what I believe to be so, based on my experience, anytime I think it applies to someone's question.

Bye, now.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Could you post pictures of these banded Brownings ?

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
Stan, Im not going to disagree with you because I dont know for sure. I have a 20 ga superposed that Ive killed at least 2 pick -up beds full of birds. I dont shoot clays with it but Ive shot tons of Rem express through that gun at Ruffed Grouse (I use a lighter load on quail). Its about ready for a new locking bolt....not flying open but top lever is getting close to 6:00 oclock. Im not surprised after years of shooting (73 gun) and shooting boomers through it. BTW, Do you know who Robert Harford is? Hes one of the best sporting guys around and still shoots a Browning Citori. He went to Krieghoff I heard for a short while, but ultimately went back to Browning. My point is, guys who love Browning shotguns love them despite their shortcomings, if they really have any. I agree with Ed, Browning shotguns are a best bet for the money. But, nothing wrong with Beretta either (some of their combs are pretty thick though).


Socialism is almost the worst.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
I don't know Harford, buzz. But, occasionally I still see a really serious Browning shooter. They have a strong belief in their guns. What I mean is, they believe they can shoot their Brownings better than another brand. Belief in your gun, at the competitive level, is important. That's exactly the reason the men I mentioned are still shooting theirs. They accept that they will spend more money on maintenance than with brand X, Y or Z, but they feel it's worth it to shoot their best. Our beliefs are not always grounded in fact, but that doesn't lessen the importance of them when competing. I have no beef with that mindset. Confidence in your gun is huge when competing.

I don't belittle or look down on anybody for the brand of gun they shoot. Truth is, I admire someone who "goes against the grain" and bests the field with a gun that may not be "accepted". I have a good friend who once beat me in a shootoff for HOA in 20 ga. at a major sporting event. He shoots nothing but 870 pumps. When he beat me I shook his hand and told him there was not another person on the grounds that I'd rather have been beaten by. And I was shooting a Beretta 687 SPII Sporting.

Best, SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332
Remember, hunting guns get shot hundreds of times a year, clays guns get shot thousands.

I suspect one of the shooters Stan is referring to is Todd Simmons of Georgia. He's had his 425's rebuilt several times. But he has probably shot half a million rounds over the last 20 years. I hope he has backed off the Red Bull and cigarettes, but I doubt it.
JR


Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Todd is a force to be reckoned with at any shoot he attends, 'eh John? Actually I was referring to other shooters that have put far less rounds through their guns than Todd, but he can be added to the list.

My 20 ga. Beretta has gone through in excess of 1300 rounds a day without cleaning anything but the chamber, for four straight days .......on two different occasions. It's shot many sporting sub-gauge tournaments, untold GA dove shoots, and quail, without ever needing to have a part replaced, or repaired in any way. Never a failure, for 16 years.

All I can do is report my experiences, and those I have witnessed, anecdotal tho' they may be. Understand that I am not bashing Brownings, or saying they're junk. Please understand, all I am saying is that, IMO, they won't last as long as a Beretta 680 series, with the same use, care and maintenance.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
1300 rds a day...you must have started shooting awful early.

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Well, you all are extremely knowledgeable and thanks a bunch. And you guys use your trap guns more than a hobbiest would.

Believe it or not, I'm going to take Ed's advice. Bull Run has both a Citori and a Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon, both with 28" barrels, that can be rented. Next time we're out there together, we'll rent the two and trade half way through the round.

Personally, I prefer 30" barrels for clays but he's used to shooting the 28" 870 (and he shoots that pump really well...sort of a natural). He will not be putting hundreds of rounds a week through this gun though....probably gets out there once or twice a week max.


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
That's great, Gene. Remember that a 28" barrel on a pump might seem longer than even 30" ones on a break open action, because of the extra length in the pump's action.

Hope he enjoys it all. That's the most important thing!

Best, SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Good point Stan...confirms my tendency toward 30" barrels. We'll see how it goes. And I do lean towards Beretta's.....speak Italian, 5 years in Rome; Italian brother-in-law...like pizza.... etc.

But, I just have to get over my distaste for the looks of those O/U things. Maybe shooting them will cure me.


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Think of like the differences in blonds, brunettes and redheads. wink

We have our preferences, but there is beauty in them all.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Better take rubber bands for the Citori...

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
stan, your child like, little boy comments re torch colors is old fake news and rather boring...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
and, i too have never heard nor seen any shotgun held together wid rubber bands...


but it sure sounds cool to say such....ah guess...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Fake news like 1300 rounds shot in a day out of a sporting clay gun....

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
That's the problem with your shallow thinking, it leads to wrong conclusions. I never said I shot 1300 rounds in a day at clays, I said I did it with a SPII Sporting, 20 ga. It was in Argentina, where it digested 5250 rounds, at doves, over the course of eight 3 hour shoots. That's not much over 200 shells an hour, no big deal. Only reason the model is called "Sporting" is because it has 30" barrels.

Go argue with a fence post the rest of the day, jOe. Pick a shallow one, you might get somewhere. I've got more important things to do than banter with you.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Wow- that many rounds at doves over a 3 day period- That's a fair amount of shooting, my friend. I won't ask what the % of expended shells per doves in the game bag was, but remembering the late Southern G'entman Nash Buckingham's "The Dove" 60% average is about as good as it gets, taking them in full house flight, and not cruising into a water hole at dusk.

As I have never shot doves, just barn pigeons (doves being P-51 Mustangs, pigeons being Republic P-47's, in my view anyway)-- I wonder how much doves in full bore flight vs. cruising into a watering hole compare to canvasbacks in full throttle vs. mallards dropping into decoys vary in flight and the gunner's ability to make clean killing shots- I should think that over 3 days, you would find variety in wind velocity, sunshine or shadow, etc- all can affect shooting scores- Can't speak about SC, as the last time in shot a 3 day event was in June 2010 at Sagola in thr UP of MI-- I was not a 'contender" RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Stan the guy was asking about a gun for his grandson to shoot sporting clays with.

I knew all along you were bragging about an Argentina dove slaughter. I bet the Argentina guys just laugh when the dumb Americans show up.

You ever get checked for PTSD ?

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Isn't the dove the bird of piece in the Bible ?

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,089
Likes: 191
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,089
Likes: 191
I shoot Brownings, Berettas, and 870s. The Beretta is a more solid feeling action, will never shoot loose in normal use. Of course, I feel that shooting an 870 is like cheating. I shot a 20 gauge 870 in the Maryland State NSSA shoot a few years ago, just because, and ran 100, lost in the shootoff because I switched to my Krieghoff, big mistake. When I switched from pump guns to over unders for competitive skeet in the mid eighties, it took a good year to get back up to speed. The only reason I don't shoot pump guns today is because I can't bend over to pick up the first shell when shooting doubles. My last NSSA shoot with my Model 12s was a 99 in 12 gauge. My first year shooting competitive International Skeet was with that same Model 12, 12 gauge.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Bird of "Piece"?? Try Bird of Peace, HoJo-- The Bible thumpers here in MI allied with the PITA faction to kill off any chance of us getting a legit dove season-ever!! So I sometimes trace their flight path when I encounter them whilst shooting their heftier cousins, barn pigeons with one of my 12 gauges-- Love to shoot barn pigeons in flight, when startled from their roost inside a silo or wooden sided barn-- and the farmer friends benefit with with less pigeon Scheise on their stored hay bales, farm equipment, etc-- Win Win-- RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,033
Likes: 45
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,033
Likes: 45
Amazing what people can do to louse up a good gun.

My 20ga Citori has about 30K shells through it and the lever is still to the right in the same place as when the gun was delivered 15 years ago.

The gun is cleaned of grease each outing, and new engine assembly lube applied. I expect it to never need 're-bolting' in my lifetime.

Should it ever start 'popping open' my first move would be to replace the top lever spring. This can be obtained in an aftermarket kit which includes firing pins and mainsprings. It costs about $60 and is a common service item for Browning shooters. I installed a kit for a friend once, if you have spring pliers it takes about half an hour to accomplish.

The only failure I've seen in the 680 series guns is broken hammers. I've seen 3. One was my trap gun at 50K rounds.

They are both very stout serviceable designs.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Stan was just spOuting off nonsense as usual.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
I've had good luck with both the "B" guns except the one that blew up....I'll let you guess which one.
The Citori CX has a low intial price and is no slouch on a clays course as witnessed by my young friend and junior shooter that found himself in a shoot off with Derrick Mein at last weekends North Central Regional Prelim. (queue the arrow/injun quote).


Dodging lions and wasting time.....
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Bill- sounds a bit like something the late Charley Waterman once said-- "Never bet your money against the man who shoots a well-worn pumpgun".. Best I ever did at 16 yards, with my 1948 Pigeon Grade M12- was 94- many years ago-- Never broke a 25 straight at skeet- the middle peg position No. 8 station I guess- always was my downfall--

Best example I have ever seen about C. Waterman's credo was at a SC event in MI-about 15 years ago- at the Blendon Pines course. On a 50 bird event-- our five man squad averaged 37/50, except for an area gunsmith well known for first rate stock work- He had a custom stocked M42- solid rib- modified choke- beautiful shotgun indeed, and he broke 43/50- was the "Top Gun" that day. He had been shooting that M42 since he was a lad- RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: [censored
]Stan was just spOuting off nonsense as usual.


That's funny. I've never been made to take a "time out" from the forum by the Admin. How many times have yOu?

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 247
Likes: 4
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 247
Likes: 4
1300 shells in a day is just slightly more than 5 flats. Ive been to Argentina twice. Id say Stan was showing a good bit of restraint. My son shot at least twice that many shells one day last time we were there. Thats what happens when dad is paying the shell bill.


Nothing the government gives you is free.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
No way he out shot our resident dove goo'roo...

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: Goillini
1300 shells in a day is just slightly more than 5 flats. Ive been to Argentina twice. Id say Stan was showing a good bit of restraint. My son shot at least twice that many shells one day last time we were there. Thats what happens when dad is paying the shell bill.


You hit the nail on the head, Goillini. On both our trips we had 2500 shells provided in the "package". All shells used above that were around $12/box. Restraint is easy when you're paying for them yourself! Bless you for taking your son. I'm sure he will never forget that.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Stanly did you not have any remorse for shooting all those doves knowing the meat was all just thrown away ?

Why not just take 1300 rds to a sporting clay range and shoot like a mad man...

I can answer that because them instead of 97.9 % of the people thinking your were crazy the percentage would jump to 99.9%.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Here's some more food for thought in your Ed / Citori bash...

There are many more Browning Citoris owned and being shot than there are Perazzis...

Truth is based on statistics the Perazzi is more prone to shoot loose than a Citori.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Never been there, never done that- but it is my understanding that the "muchachos de los palomas" keep all the birds they have retrieved, and use them to feed their families-- I have no problem with those large daily bags, apparently they are a major problem for the agricultural economy in the Latin American countries- feed on the grain crops the farmers depend on.

RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Everyone I know that has gone said no one eats them...

Go back to hunt dreaming no one was talking yo you.

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,966
Likes: 293
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,966
Likes: 293
Certainly there are many good reasons a beginning shooter should (if they have the resources) start with a Beretta or Browning.

Facts are, people don't stay with it.

Both are easily disposed of.

After that, B1 and B2 don't shoot the same. Different dynamics, different grips.

Go to a club, get some lesons, try them both.

Probably one with an adjustable comb and tubes would be optimal.

If the shooter stays involved, the upgrade path is easiest.

I like the Blazer F16, but hate their stocks, as example.


Out there doing it best I can.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
Quote:
I like the Blazer F16, but hate their stocks, as example.


CZ is it the stock design that you dislike? The first one I saw in person (and shot) looked like they forgot to complete the wood finish...not attractive. On the other hand I broke everything I shot with it which got me considering buying one.

Ken


Dodging lions and wasting time.....
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,966
Likes: 293
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,966
Likes: 293
The vertical pistol grip kills my wrist by 200 rnds.
The wood is plank grade on purpose.


As a guy that travels, one benefit of B1 or B2 is that a knowledgeable gunsmith with parts is somewhere nearby, nearly world wide.


Out there doing it best I can.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,966
Likes: 293
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,966
Likes: 293
The vertical pistol grip kills my wrist by 200 rnds.
The wood is plank grade on purpose.


As a guy that travels, one benefit of B1 or B2 is that a knowledgeable gunsmith with parts is somewhere nearby, nearly world wide.


Out there doing it best I can.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
They are hawking upgraded wood on the F16's now. Most of the "upgrades" look more like "acceptable" grades to me. smirk


Dodging lions and wasting time.....
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 247
Likes: 4
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 247
Likes: 4
Yes, Stan, that's exactly what it's about. I hope to do this kind of stuff until I shuffle off this mortal coil. But if I ever get so I can't physically handle it anymore, my hope is that at least my son will remember all the good times spent outdoors together and say "hey Dad, remember that trip we took to Argentina? That was really great."

Last edited by Goillini; 06/21/19 11:57 AM. Reason: Deleting stray word

Nothing the government gives you is free.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
gotta be better reasons to go to argentiner, besides killin bushels o song birds...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,663
Likes: 372
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,663
Likes: 372
Originally Posted By: ed good
gotta be better reasons to go to argentiner, besides killin bushels o song birds...


The wine is pretty fine and the scenery and stag hunting is too.


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,552
Likes: 86
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,552
Likes: 86
Originally Posted By: ed good
gotta be better reasons to go to argentiner, besides killin bushels o song birds...

Originally Posted By: HolyjOe
Everyone I know that has gone said no one eats them...
Go back to hunt dreaming no one was talking yo you.

The two of you should get your sh!t together.
Doves are pests that consume something like a third
of all cultivated grains in South America.

People are starving on account of South American doves.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 247
Likes: 4
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 247
Likes: 4
Well Ed, on one of the trips we also shot quite a few ducks and perdiz. So I agree, there are lots of good reasons to go to Argentina.


Nothing the government gives you is free.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 99
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 99
Some beautiful women in Buenos Aires, couldn't help noticing...Geo

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
wine an womens...now dat souns inter restin...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: Bob Cash
Originally Posted By: ed good
gotta be better reasons to go to argentiner, besides killin bushels o song birds...

Originally Posted By: HolyjOe
Everyone I know that has gone said no one eats them...
Go back to hunt dreaming no one was talking yo you.

The two of you should get your sh!t together.
Doves are pests that consume something like a third
of all cultivated grains in South America.

People are starving on account of South American doves.


Consider the source(s), Bob.

Before doves became an income producer for farmers there the doves were being killed with poisoned grain. Then scavenging predators ate the dead doves and were poisoned, too. The income from worldwide hunters coming to stay and shoot doves helps offset the crop losses from the doves. To say they are in plague numbers is not a stretch. There is one 1600 acre roost of which I am aware that roosts up to 25 million doves at one time. They raise five broods a year.

Some of the birds are picked up after the shoot and fed to the hunters. We had a couple of dove dishes which I very much enjoyed. Most of the birds are left there, and every one is consumed during the night. We once shot the same field in the morning that we had shot the afternoon before. There was not one dove remaining, nothing but little wads of feathers. There are numerous species of wild cats there, from the size of a housecoat to a panther. There are more kinds of hawks and eagles than you can imagine. They start appearing in the field as soon as you begin shooting, and begin eating the dead doves. Iguanas eat them, too. I couldn't begin to name all the predators that consume the dead doves. Nothing goes to waste in nature. I have no qualms about killing a thousand a day. It's a win/win deal.

SRH



May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 312
Likes: 73
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 312
Likes: 73
At a small diner in central Cordoba Provence we had a tasty evening meal, fresh bread, wine and an interesting stew. I asked what the flavorful meat was--viscacha was the answer. In the early dawn we were headed out for some perdiz hunting, I saw what looked giant gophers in and out of some burrows, I asked what they were, you are right....vischaca! Tastiest rodent I have ever had! Also saw weis-or guinea pigs in the wild, just a glimpse is all you see. Lots of neat stuff to see.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,089
Likes: 191
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,089
Likes: 191
Clapper Zapper, you must not get out much if you think shooters who start with Berettas and Brownings don't stick with them. I have shot Perazzis, Purdeys, Krieghoffs, you name it, in competition, but I have not given up my Berettas and Brownings yet, and at 73, I don't plan to.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
instead o killin duh doves, how bout reducin duh cultivation an letin duh groun go back tu wile...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
an dont no ov nobody stravin in argintiner do to lack o grain...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
although, lot o bs bein propogated here...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
The word Dove is found in the King James Bible 19 times, the word Turtledove 3 times with all three being references to using them as Sacrifices. When an animal or fowl was sacrificed it was "Killed".
The phrase "Bird of Peace" is simply not found at all, so that phrase is man given & not inspired.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: ed good
instead o killin duh doves, how bout reducin duh cultivation an letin duh groun go back tu wile...


Careful, you're letting your progressivism show through again. Doves lives are more important than feeding people? Unbelievable.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,441
Likes: 204
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,441
Likes: 204
Originally Posted By: ed good
although, lot o bs bein propogated here...

You're a pretty sharp fellow ed. It's kinda like they used to say when you ate paint chips, just because you shoot clay targets for sport, doesn't mean you have to eat 'em, right?

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Feller can't even ask about a gun without Stanley turning the thread into his private bragadousious dove shoot.....

And again he gets a pass for being a bragadousious azz.

We had giant pigeon roosts in the US untill unscrupulous shooters externinated them...

Notice I said "shooters" because they weren't hunters anymore than the modern day Argentina dove shooters are.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 381
Likes: 8
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 381
Likes: 8
This is pointless, as ALL the Argentinian scavengers have obviously died from all the lead shot ingested when eating the birds, Right.....um....right....um??


Dumb, but learning...Prof Em, BSc(ME), CAE (FYI)
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 452
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 452
Have not read all 8 pages but has anybody said most Brownings are ported. Few Berettas have ports.

I vote Beretta no barrel holes.

Boats

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704
Likes: 1
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704
Likes: 1
Well that's kind of how is was - Beretta vs. Browning discussion.

Then a poster started doing his self-aggrandizing bit.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Ed thinks he's the "class clown" here- all his butchering of the English language is not funny- pointless to be honest- Amos and Andy doesn't "Play in Peoria" nowadays- RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Runs at the mouth eYe believe he was referring to Stanley's dove shooting grandstanding...not Ed.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
foxie, how was duh gon show...

DID YUH SELL DAT SPANISH GON...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
No "dog in this dove-turd-wrassle" Ho-Jo, and each to their own, but I don't see Stan's report on his Argentina dove hunting trips as "grand-standing", not by a long shot. He was just relating what happened, and many shooters like to relate their ratio of shells expended for birds hit- whether they wear feathers, or are made of clay and painted orange--

Many SA countries rely of American Sportsmen to sustain their economies--Just as I am sure Africa relies of their registered PWH and Outfitters to sustain their economy via the American Sportsmen on Safari-- RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Si, Senor--$250 CIF (Cash In Fist)--El Zorro..


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: [censored]
Runs at the mouth eYe believe he was referring to Stanley's dove shooting grandstanding...not Ed.


You are one poor, mixed up soul. Grandstanding, and self aggrandizement, is bragging on one's prowess, or deeds. How is relating how many shells a Beretta digested, without breaking down, grandstanding? I never mentioned the number of doves killed, or missed. My only reason for even bringing it up was because you didn't have enough sense to read closely and understand that I wasn't talking about shooting 1300 shells a day at sporting clays. You claim to have known that all along, and were just playing along. Everyone on here who believes that could stand in line on a pop sickle stick.

If bragging on my gun's dependability is grandstanding, what was your pic of the five turkeys you killed in one day doing? yOu and Ed make an awesome tag team. You just need to work together a little better. He needs some help with his grammar, and maybe he can help you with some new routines. Your old lines have really worn thin.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Amen to that, Amigo El Zorro!!


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
I knew exactly where you were headed.

I even told a member on here that Stan is headed on an Argentine dove shoot.

The post was asking about a sporting clay gun for the guys grandson.

You are the bragart that trashed Ed because he recommended a Browning Citori.

EasY to see...even for a blind man with PTSD from shooting 1300 rounds.


Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Actually Frank, it's my youngest son, not grandson...and we'll be trying both the Citori and the Beretta. I actually owned a Browning automatic in Pakistan 1975-78 with 30" barrel...never shot it...sold it there. And I did look at a Beretta as a possible gun for Daughter-in-law before giving her Ed's 16 guage Gerest-Berthon SxS.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=446254&page=1
And when Ed's not on drugs, he's a very intelligent and persuasive guy - I can comment on dealing with him - what he told me about that very attractive 1906 SxS and what was left out.

This will be fun partially because I'd like to try these two O/U's as well and I'm always looking for something we can do together. Actually to this day I still like shooting that 1979 Remington 870 (and son does too) and I want to make sure this idea isn't just some romantic notion that an O/U will automatically open the door to higher scores. He does seem to be a natural shot but like golf, equipment might not replace some professional training. I'll let you all know how it comes out.

However, If Stephen decides to sell that 1930's Saint Etienne 16 bore, as rough as it is, I'd be sorely tempted.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...2782#Post452782

Last edited by Argo44; 06/23/19 07:58 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Originally Posted By: Stan
Originally Posted By: ed good


for my money, the brownings are a best buy...


FWIW, I would take what anybody says about the value of a particular shotgun, who calls himself restoring case colors on shotgun actions with an acetylene torch, with a grain of salt .................or less.

SRH


No reason for this kind of crap

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Posters on here earn their credibility by what they post, or don't.

You think someone who supports torching actions to "restore case colors" is credible in other areas of gun recommendation? I don't.

Give your partner ed a tag, jOe. You need a break.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
You bought a gun from Ed didn't you ?

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Yep, and I tried to help you from making that same mistake. Remember how that worked out? Fortunately, you got your money back on the misrepresented gun. Now, you attack me and defend him. Strange.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Couple of things relevant: Before buying the Gerest Berthon I asked for photo of the bores...Ed said he didn't know how to do this. The gun was what I was looking for and was priced right. And when I notice the "7" on the barrel flats, I realized it had original French 2 3/4" chambers (this in a 1906 gun!). So I took a chance and bought it. Ed forgot to tell me the barrel had been honed to remove pitting and was no longer in proof... but I had it checked out and it's safe for my Daughter-in-law to shoot.

At the time Ed said frankly that he likes "stirring the pot" so there you have it. Also at the time Ed was in Vermont selling guns on commission ...Then he moved to Florida and became a Southerner. Now I think he's a Virginian. No matter, he is who he is. I'd deal with him again but caveat emptor.

Last edited by Argo44; 06/26/19 09:06 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
Ed does have impressively positive feedback on Gunbroker. How do you explain that Stan?


Socialism is almost the worst.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,441
Likes: 204
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,441
Likes: 204
It probably has something to do with how engaged the buyers of those types of guns are. Argo's thoughts were good, it seems he built in his own comfort zone for surprises before he pulled the trigger.

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
I worked for almost 50 years for a relatively small government agency; your "hall file" was what you lived and died by. I've discovered the SxS community is relatively small, extremely knowledgeable (and opinionated) and reputations become well known very quickly. Witness the number of warnings issued on this board. Just saying.

Last edited by Argo44; 06/23/19 09:42 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: buzz
Ed does have impressively positive feedback on Gunbroker. How do you explain that Stan?


That's a loaded question, buzz. Am I supposed to answer for other's experiences, or mine? If someone is happy with torched "case colors", they give positive feedback. That was not the issue between Ed and me, tho'. Nuff said.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
zzzzzzzzzzzz...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Stan we are all still waiting on proof that you saw lots of Citoris held shut with rubber bands.

I like how you ignored what I said about a Pirazzi.

So here we go again...

Would you agree that there are thousands upon thousand more Browning Citoris out there in service than Pirazzi O/Ur ?

And would you also agree that you heAr about more Pirazzi shotguns breaking down ?

Ps...Stanley you really should be man enough to apologize for attacking Mr. Ed over some old grudge you hold.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
I'm not going to plow the same ground over and over. I've stated what I've seen. That's all it is, and that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

You really should think a bit longer about what you want to post, before you do it. Your constant editing makes it tough to respond.

Maybe you should give your partner Ed a pep talk. You've been carrying the load for him lately. Bless your heart.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
No rubber band proof that's what I figured...

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Originally Posted By: Argo44
My son has been shooting my Remington 870 at sporting clays for two years since I introduced him to the sport. He doesn't get much charge out of our SxS's. He said the other day that he liked the pointing characteristic of the Remington but that he'd gone about as far as he can with the pump and at some point would like an O/U.

So, birthday coming up, I'm considering it. I don't want to spend more than about $1,500 and know zip about O/U's


I'd recommend a Browning 725 Sporting...30 or 32" barrel.

It's a little more than you talked about spending but it has a lot of features for the money...and it's available in right or left hand.

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,189
Likes: 18
tw Offline
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,189
Likes: 18
Back to the OP's question and somewhere along the line mention of both types of guns being available for rent; I would suggest that you rent one gun and shoot a full sporty clay course with it. Then come back the next day and shoot the same course, but rent the other gun. That should give your son a better opportunity to judge for himself how each feels in his hands. I would personally find it difficult to form much of an opinion shooting less than a few boxes or by switching the guns between each other over a few targets. I'll also mention that skeet is still the best back to basics shotgun game. Shooting skeet from a gun down start or off the shoulder as one might approach a dog on point is a good way to see how a gun handles.

Let us know how it goes. Great that you are shooting together!

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
well, as we are getting back on topic, may i humbly suggest the original o/u, that started it all...the browning belgian made superposed...wonderful elegant guns, that seem to shoot where you point them...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Superposed


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
I'd second that suggestion but add that I'd do it more than 1 day with each gun if for no other reason than to rule out the lucky day.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Copied and pasted from Shotgunworld:

Read 'em and weep. This isn't a recent "phenomenon".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post subject: Citori Opening when firing top barrel Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:44 pm
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:49 am
Posts: 5195
Location: Southwest Georgia, USA
My Citori is opening when I fire the top barrel first. It will remain closed when firing the bottom barrel first, but the gun feels funny sometimes and I think it's because it is opening slightly and reclosing. I believe on examination and comparing it to another Citrori that the bolt lock is worn. I can get if from Brownells at http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/schema ... Citori+#50 but can I install it myself? How much fitting is required? Is the disassembly of the insides that difficult? I have replaced firing pins and hammer springs and am reasonalby good with tools. TIA


Seamus O'Caiside
Post subject: re: Citori Opening when firing top barrel Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:42 pm


Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:46 pm
Posts: 9166
Location: Richmond, VA
I've never owned a Browning O/U, but I have a lot of friends who do. Several of them have had similar problems, and it turned out to be a weak top lever spring. That seems to be something that is fairly common in Brownings. Replacing the spring is pretty simple, although I can't tell you how it is done.

_________________
My book on Beretta 391 Disassembly is no longer available.
My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh.

GunDr
Post subject: re: Citori Opening when firing top barrel Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:42 pm
Gunsmith
Gunsmith
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 2:46 pm
Posts: 1141
Location: Backus, MN
Before going to too much expense of getting a new locking bolt fitted or rebuilt, try a new top lever spring. The Citori top lever spring gets quite a workout and it weakens.

_________________
Doug Braker

SuperXOne
Post subject: re: Citori Opening when firing top barrel Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:30 am
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 26998
Location: Missouri
The Browning over and under, whether Citori or Superposed, wears out that little top lever spring and causes exactly the problem you are describing. Bet it's just the top lever spring. My Superposed did that and a top lever spring fixed it. Cost me 40 bucks installed at a Sporting Clays shoot.

While you are replacing the top lever spring, you need to clean the firing pins and the holes they travel in. The bottom firing pin, especially, is prone to get gunked up and cause light firing pin strikes.


Post subject: re: Citori Opening when firing top barrel Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:15 am
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 26998
Location: Missouri
I was in the middle of the first day of a two day sporting clays tournament when my Superposed started popping open when I fired the top barrel. I cleaned it with Break Free between stations, and it made it much worse. So, I wiped all the oil off and took a section of aluminum foil off a cigarette pack and made a shim to put on the front hinge. It seemed to work, but the foil wouldn't last. A Browning fanatic came up (anybody who owns at least six Diana grade Superposed is, in my book, a Browning fanatic) and I asked him what did he think was wrong. He told me it was just that top spring and there was a gunsmith on the grounds that could fix it, probably overnight.

I shot the rest of the stations with it popping open. It only popped open on the top barrel, after you shot it. I don't think I missed any birds because of it, but sometimes it would pop open and, I swear, close again, and I could see this as I shot.

Overnight the gunsmith with a trailer on the grounds fixed it for forty bucks. He said they were notorious to do that, and so was a Citori, same design. Ever since it's been just fine.
I've been meaning to get a spare top lever screw, but never have.


SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
gee stan, you must be part bull dog, georgia bull dog, that is...once you latch on, you just cant let it go...

any how, never seen nor heard of brownings popping open...however, i do not travel in high volume competitive shooting circles, so i am really unqualified to speak about such things...my area of expertise is more in field guns and casual target guns...the browning top lever spring issue sounds like the notorious parker single trigger issue...something dedicated shooters tolerate because they love their gun so much for its looks and shooting qualities...

there is in fact no perfect gun...we do not live in a perfect world...thank goodness, cause din we would have nuttin to grouse about...cept duh wedder...

Last edited by ed good; 06/24/19 08:28 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Originally Posted By: ed good
gee stan, you must be part bull dog, georgia bull dog, that is...once you latch on, you just cant let it go...

any how, never seen nor heard of brownings popping open...however, i do not travel in high volume competitive shooting circles, so i am really unqualified to speak about such things...my area of expertise is more in field guns and casual target guns...the browning top lever spring issue sounds like the notorious parker single trigger issue...something dedicated shooters tolerate because they love their gun so much for its looks and shooting qualities...there is in fact no perfect gun...we do not live in a perfect world...thank goodness, cause din we would have nuttin to grouse about...cept duh wedder...


No ed, no bulldog in me. My family descends from "Rambling Wrecks", from GA Tech.

I just take it personal like when I'm called a liar.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,978
Likes: 105
If you search Shotgunworld, you will see threads talking about Beretta guns popping open too. I doubt that Browning shotguns are the only ones that pop open when a new locking bolt or top lever spring or whatever is needed for the repair of guns that have had heavy use. But, we should thank Stan. That took a lot of work to find and copy and paste all the bad Browning press to support the rubber band cause.


Socialism is almost the worst.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
That's only one thread, buzz. No big job at all to find. Took every bit of five minutes. I'd have done so earlier, but it is just against my nature to have to prove myself when I make a statement. I know this is a worldwide forum, and that takes some getting used to for me. Around here, when I say something, people who know me don't ask me to prove it, they accept that I am truthing, because they know me. This here is a whole 'nuther ballgame.

Probably could find some threads about Berettas opening on the shot, I said that I had seen one, but did you happen to notice that the gunsmith was quoted as saying that the Brownings are "notorious to do that"? Feel free to find that quote about Berettas.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
well stan, win people like you call me a liar or accuse me of activity, that i no nothing about, i just ignore you and them...

cause, fact is ah just cant be bothered, unless of course they are paying customers, then i take interest...an pay attention...


Last edited by ed good; 06/24/19 09:09 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 313
Likes: 11
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 313
Likes: 11
I had a SP2 that started popping open after firing. I replaced the top lever spring myself, and Im no gunsmith. Problem solved. The replacement spring was of a thicker gauge than the original FYI.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Great job of copy and paste'n Stan.

I believe below you talked like you had personally seen rubber banded Brownings....here you tell it it's as common as a banded boar hawg.

Originally Posted By: Stan
I've lost count of the number of non-professional sporting clays shooters that I know, who have shot Brownings' bolting loose in a few short years, to the point that the lever opens on it's own accord after the first shot. Not uncommon to see a young guy with a rubber band stretched around the wrist, and looped around the top lever from both directions.
SRH




Now its look'n like you saw it online...I learned a long time ago not to believe everything you read on line.

Even thou its so much cOoler to read it online and then dream you were there...

I always wondered how a hawg felt when they put that wubber band on his nut sack.

Originally Posted By: Stan
Copied and pasted from Shotgunworld:

Read 'em and weep.


I read it and I'm not "weeping".

Just saying.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Stan has "hit the nail square on the head". One of the many downsides of the Internet is the anomity of some, not all members of any one specific forum- based on a common thread of interest.

I have the same reputation among my many farmer friends in the rural area where I live that Stan enjoys "down in Dixie"-- But conveying that reputation to strangers you will never meet "face to face" vi the Internet-- whole 'nother ball game indeed. My late Grandfather like to saw: "A small town is where folks know your word and your check are good- day after day".. RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Ed, back to the same "butchered English- Amos 'n Andy dialect again I see" Old habits die hard, Eddie-- You say you pay attention when a customer talks, especially a "paying" one. Tell you what, Fast Eddie- I'll bet you have about as many "paying customers" as Madonna has size 32 A cup sized bras in her closet.
Foxy!!


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
tell you watt foxy...if you dont like watt ah post, den jes ignore hit...

as fur payin customers, my 1600, plus positive feedbacks on gunbroker speak to dat...

"money talks, bs walks"...

foxy: take ah hike...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Aaaah yess- Gun Broker- where half of the guns listed for sale have miss-leading info regarding salient details-- "Selective Extractors, Parker 28 gauge Trojan grades w/ejectors, the beat goes on.. I visit Guns International from time to time, just to check the market", as I do Cabela's Gun Library's=-- where the other day I saw listings from a West VA Gun Library for three older pump action Winchesters- 2 Model 61's, and 1 Model 62 in "TAKE-DOWN" versions- Cow cookies--

Ed, I don't give a big rat's behind if you have 16, or 1600, or even 16K "customers" from your BS ads on Gun Broker (or even on Guns and Roses brokerage, LLC)--You are a con man masquerading here as a legit gun dealer, and all your cornpone Southern jive-ass drivel that you seem to enjoy parading on this website when "provoked" by those of us that take gun dealing as a serious business-- When I think, in my wildest dreams, about looking at one of your "Flammenwerfered" double guns listed on Gun Broker, I think about the great line Jack Nicholson uttered in the movie: "Terms of Endearment"== "I'd rather stick needles in my eyes"!! RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
I've never known Ed to represent himself here as anything but Ed...unlike some gun dealers that try and slide under the radar in the sale section.

Fox the only thing Stan hit square was his own head...

Lucky the hammer was wubber.



Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
well foxie, ah aint no serious gun dealer, watt evah dat means...

ah have been ah hobby gun dealer almost forty years now...

do hit fur fun an small profit...

neva tried to make ah livin at hit...

did make my livin for many years sellin goods an services...

luv sellin...luv happy customers...

cant be bothered wid cronic malcontents...

life is too short to waste it wid miserable people...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332


Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Only thing missin' from the Foghorn Leghorn scenario is the Fox in the chicken coop- now-a-days, most of my farmer friends whose families have chicken coops (and omelettes for breakfast every morning) have a bigger threat with possums and raccoons-- Aaaah Yeeess--


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
foghorn leghorn...one of my favorites... along wid wile e. coyote...

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrJ7FsfdxJdwMgAjQNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NXJvcm9wBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjc2NzZfMQRzZWMDcGl2cw--?p=wile+e+coyote&fr2=piv-web&fr=yset_widemail_chr_win

Last edited by ed good; 06/25/19 03:34 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
John I knew another feller that could heAr a story and it became his own story.

No telling what he dreams up reading stuff on the internet.

Knew another rAre type feller...thing about him you could never figure out if he was lying or telling the truth when he stretched a story.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Originally Posted By: Run With The Fox
Only thing missin' from the Foghorn Leghorn scenario is the Fox in the chicken coop- now-a-days, most of my farmer friends whose families have chicken coops (and omelettes for breakfast every morning) have a bigger threat with possums and raccoons-- Aaaah Yeeess--


Fox what we need now is us a grAnpappy story.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ah jes real alized sum thin very disturbin...

when awl is said an done, nuttin points better dan ah pump gon...

ah needs to go climb ah mountain now, an ponder, wunder, reflect an try to come to terms wiff dis troublin revelation...

Last edited by ed good; 06/26/19 12:35 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
I realized something disturb'n too...you are disturbed.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
jOe: us prophets, we are disturbed...it is part o de burden o bearin da news...good an bad...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Ed, thanks for the insight but the fine, natural, pointing characteristics of the Remington 870 was what started this line off. We both (son/father) want to see if the O/U's can equal it to match the other obvious two-shot without-moving-a-finger, repeatable-action advantage an O/U has.

And Ed, drugs are not good.

edit: And there is something supremely satisfying in a subliminal way to manually jacking a round into an 870 chamber. General Palit thought the 870 to be "clumsy" compared to his Holland and Holland SxS in his book. General..I'll respectfully say, while honoring those now passed away, that head to head in the mustard fields of Utter Pradesh in the Gangetic plain, I outshot you with the 870. And I know I've tried to become a "gentleman" and love the William Evans you gave us and the Reilly's I own...but that old pump is still relevant.

Last edited by Argo44; 06/26/19 11:30 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
argo, most pump guns are fine pointing and shooting guns...

my favorite is the remington model 17...

re drugs, not to worry... beer and wine only, do hit fur me...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Pump.

I'd as soon have a bumper jAck...

Speaking of bumper jAcks Mr.Sniffle'bean says the Mossburg pump is one of the finest pumpers ever made...but he also likes a Darne shootgun.


Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
I have no disdain for pump guns but saying they "point" better than anything else is pretty goofy.

Working in the oil patch I shoot a lot of fund raisers and corporate Sporting Clay events. There are always a bunch of guys (and gals) that show up with pump guns. Most of the shoots supply shells for the events (steel head cheapies) that are not great fodder for a pump gun.
I've got to admit it can be pretty amusing watching these guys try to eject stuck shells out of Pappy's old shucker after shooting (at) the first bird and the second bird making it's escape. Ok.... I may be evil. wink


Dodging lions and wasting time.....
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
souns like dim "steel head cheapies" are duh work o say tan...

or mebbie bar retta...

Last edited by ed good; 06/27/19 10:05 AM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 33
Originally Posted By: ed good
souns like dim "steel head cheapies" are duh work o say tan...

or mebbie bar retta...


Ed your replies are getting progressively more obtuse.....

For your listening pleasure...a vernacular you can understand.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=buc...D&FORM=VIRE

Last edited by Ken Nelson; 06/27/19 11:52 AM.

Dodging lions and wasting time.....
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332
Rotflmao Ken. Too good...
JR


Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
I wish Ed was a monkey...

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
In 1956 I bought a new 870 pump. Tried to shoot the cussed thing for 2-3 seasons then traded it for a 12 gauge Parker Trojan. The one thing it did accomplish, I've never had another desire for a shotgun with less than two barrels & I want them side by each. Nothing "Points" better than an SxS double.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
buck wheat...he cool...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Originally Posted By: 2-piper
In 1956 I bought a new 870 pump. Tried to shoot the cussed thing for 2-3 seasons then traded it for a 12 gauge Parker Trojan. The one thing it did accomplish, I've never had another desire for a shotgun with less than two barrels & I want them side by each. Nothing "Points" better than an SxS double.


Except an O/U'r

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 44
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 44
Originally Posted By: [censored
]
Originally Posted By: 2-piper
In 1956 I bought a new 870 pump. Tried to shoot the cussed thing for 2-3 seasons then traded it for a 12 gauge Parker Trojan. The one thing it did accomplish, I've never had another desire for a shotgun with less than two barrels & I want them side by each. Nothing "Points" better than an SxS double.


Except an O/U'r


Or a bumper jack.


__________________________
Ithaca 37.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
The late Rudy Etchen might argue that point with you- he played his 870 Trap grade like Horowitz- Van Cliburn= Dr, John played a Steinway--


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
im up on duh mount in now...waitin fur duh mir cul tu ba gin...

so far nuttin, not even ah burnin bush...

chilly up here...

Last edited by ed good; 06/29/19 09:24 AM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 565
dal Offline
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 565
Originally Posted By: ed good
im up on duh mount in now...waitin fur duh mir cul tu ba gin...

so far nuttin, not even ah burnin bush...

chilly up here...


Are you having a stroke?...lol


Life is too short to have a 'hate on' for so many things or people. Isn't it?
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
wait...who is dat ah am seein? is dat charleston heston...or, no...

hits john browning wearin ah sheet...

an he got ah pump gon (could be ah model 1893), cradled in one arm...an watt looks like a superposed in ta udder...

an he got an owl sittin on one shoulder...

watt do hit awl mean?

Last edited by ed good; 06/29/19 09:06 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,552
Likes: 86
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,552
Likes: 86
Originally Posted By: ed good
wait...who is dat ah am seein? is dat charleston heston...or, no...
hits john browning wearin ah sheet...
an he got ah pump gon (could be ah model 1893), cradled in one arm...an watt looks like a superposed in ta udder...
an he got an owl sittin on one shoulder...
watt do hit awl mean?

Judging by the way you communicate,
It means you're a Moron.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,126
Likes: 1126
You shouldn't denigrate morons that way, Bob.

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,710
Likes: 729
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,710
Likes: 729


sick




Best,
Ted

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
youse guys are no fun...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Stan don't like you to make him look dumb Ed....he does a good enough jOb on his own.

Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 14 15

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.700s Queries: 314 (0.589s) Memory: 1.6720 MB (Peak: 3.2739 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 10:34:34 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS