doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com BUTT TRANSPLANT DILEMMA

HERE ARE TWO STOCKS, PARTS OF WHICH ARE GOOD AND SERVICEABLE. MY OBJECTIVE HERE IS TO JOIN THEM INTO ONE REALLY NICE STOCK. I THINK I HAVE THE NEEDED ANGLES FIGURED OUT AND CAN GET STRAIGHT FLAT CUTS USING A HAND MITRE BOX THAT WILL MATE WELL. WHAT I HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT YET IS HOW TO JOIN THEM; MAYBE MORTISE AND TENON, MAYBE HARDWOOD DOWELS, MAYBE ALL-THREAD. PROBABLY TITEBOND III, POSSIBLY EPOXY. ANY THOUGHTS WOULD BE APPRECIATED; I'M ONLY GOING TO GET ONE CHANCE AT THIS. I KNOW I WILL HAVETO EXPAND THE CHECKERING FIELD BUT I'LL DEAL WITH THAT LATER. THANKS, GIL

Why not follow the top line of the checkering?

Gil - PM Chuck H.
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/16839920

I would practice cutting both pieces first. While your handsaw miter box may be fabulous, I find a I can get a much smoother cut with my Hitatchi compound miter saw than I can with the sharpest handsaw. Just my experience. Be sure you cut orthogonal to the centerline of the stock, otherwise you are going to induce some cast.

I would use my table saw with a sled and cut out the break, then cut a matching angle on the donor stock, use couple of dowels, and glue it up with a slightly lighter colored epoxy. You would locate the donor on the cut so you could get the drop you want leaving wood to refinish. I use titebond when I build furniture but for some reason epoxy on guns.

bill

I would go with epoxy, rather than Titebond, for this application. Specifically I would go with WEST system epoxy, and if you call their technical help phone #, they can tell you exactly which of their products you should use.

Mergus

Mortise and tenon. Crossed chisels did an article in SS years ago, that was his method. I believe it is all about surface area contact; more is better.

I�d leave both sides of the cut a little over sized and creep up to the fit you want. I think most of the time might be spent jigging up reliable holding fixtures. Maybe, use your best strategies to minimize tear out since the butt I�d figure is near finished dimensions. I think it would only be luck if you got two perfect cuts. I also think the joint would glare a little even if well done, maybe you can move it to well inside the checkering panels, as it appears expanding the checkering wouldn�t look quite right based on your drawing. Best of luck with it.

The head of the receiver wood does not measure up to the butt piece. Going to look shitty.
JR

The grain in the butt piece appears to settle down a bit when it gets into the area of the checkering. After the work is complete, the grain could be enhanced and matched. It is definitely doable.

Best,
Ted

Agree with John Roberts

I'm sure you're aware that butt transplants typically utilize an oversize blank that is grafted onto a sound head and grip section. But I've always been intrigued with the idea of attempting what you are proposing here. A number of good ideas have been forwarded so far. I like Bill's idea of using a sled on a table saw to make your cuts. A couple well matched and fitted mortises with a hardwood plywood tenon for maximum strength in the joint rather than dowels or all-thread. I think Titebond wood glue is fantastic stuff, but I'd go with the West System epoxy suggested by Mergus, simply because it will be tough to get a perfectly mated joint in the mortise and tenon. Using a milling machine would be best for machining the mortises. Epoxy is a much better gap filler than Titebond wood glue, and being internal, no one will ever see it. I like craigd's idea of sneaking up on the final mating surfaces by cutting a bit oversize, and taking it down to final perfect fit with a belt or disc sander. The joint should ideally end up hidden in the bottom of a checkering groove on both sides so that very little glue line is visible. A darker alkanet type stain hides a glue joint better than a lighter finish.

An interesting and challenging project Gil. I hope it turns out well, and I hope we get to see the results.

Some very thoughtful replies here. Thank you to all, please keep them coming!

Gil,

You may want to look at a copy of Shotgun Technicana by McIntosh and Trevallion. They have a 4 page chapter (with pics) on the butt transplant.

Ken

"Crossed Chisels" or "DT" (aka David Trevallion) used the biscuit method which some have erroneously called the "mortise & tenon" method. In the mortise & tenon one piece has the mortise and the other piece has the tenon and they are glued and pressed together. With the biscuit method both pieces have the mortise precisely cut into them and a precision cut circular biscuit or wafer is glued, as are both mortises, and the whole lot are pressed together.

Take the opportunity to introduce cast, as fits you.

Did the final fit up and assembly this morning. I'll follow up with more photos this week.

I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures Gil.

Dean

More like pig toting a silken purse....

Just speculating.

I'll just relate a few of the highlights:
--I had several stocks lying around to use for practice cuts on the electric miter box, that helped so I could learn how to really hold the final piece correctly.
--I don't have a mill so I used a dowling jig to place the holes for the mortise, and then cleaned them up with very sharp chisels. That worked. The biscuit size is 1 1/2" x 1/2 x 1/4. I made the biscuit last to exactly fit the mortise.
--I used good quality slow-set epoxy, knowing that positioning the piece needed to set exactly in the correct position.
--Still have final finish work to do and then clean up the checkering and expand the field slightly.
--Comments: I am glad I was able to save a drop-dead gorgeous piece of wood. I spent more time than I had figured but so far worth it. Next time (if there is one) I will use end mills and x-y table on drill press. I don't have a mill. ALL of your comments were much appreciated--even the skeptics. THANK YOU.
WORKING ON INCLUDING A FEW PHOTOS. CHECK BACK IN A LITTLE WHILE. GIL

gil,
how did you set the alignment for your holes in two pieces so that they would meet at exactly the right angle and position? There is not much to use for reference surfaces on either piece, much less both of them. That, to me, would be the hard part.

Gil...

Nice work. I got a gun if you want more practice? (big grin)

That looks pretty nice Gil... and they said it couldn�t be done.