doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Can Black Powder Barrels be Sleeved to Nitro?

I have been looking at a quality old English sidelock that appears to have only proof marks for black powder. I was wondering if the barrels can be sleeved to make the gun pass nitro proof? Would it be safe to assume that the action would be up to the task?

Yes, they can be sleeved as you state. It may not be necessary if the barrels are sound and low pressure loads can be shot.
No !!!!! Only a competent smith can say that any action is safe after he examines that individual gun.
Please take into consideration the old, very old stock as well. Old wood, as old bones, can fail if stressed beyond their limits.
Hope this helps.
Best,
John

John:
You make some good points above but I honestly have to question that second statement as we hear this all the time. Would you or anyone for that matter please explain exactly what a "competent gun smith" would do to insure the integrity of an old double? I personally wouldn't shoot anything with obvious problems such as loosness,off face,cracks,pitting etc. but what exactly is this gunsmith going to do beyond examining for obvious problems that I think most of us can find for ourselves?
Jim

Wall thickness, repairs, etc...

Jim,

Why would you think it needed to sleeve a gun to pass nitro? I have a couple of Birmingham sidelocks that are only blackpowder proofed.

From the histories I have tracked down on them, they appear to have been in the USA since shortly after they were made. No law here requiring re-proof at any point and so they don't carry those marks.

One is a 2 7/8" chambered 10ga. I have it on good authority that a previous owner shot 3 1/2" magnums through it for many years. I would NEVER do that, but I am unsure what sending it for nitro proof would prove? It has essentially been nitro prooved hundreds of times.

I had a competent 'smith check it out and the barrels are sound, as is the action. It was a bit off the face (imagine that!) but that is being corrected.

One recent post about single trigger problems emphasises the point of the examiner being able to detect the small things which will eventually lead to big problems in that instead of turning the tang screws to a point that would put them out of alignment one would shim because the wood had shrunk.

Teague advertises to sleeve(to stamp or not to stamp sleeved or lined) a set of barrels for around $1900 and I'm sure Briley would make it a subgauge for you for a fee. But what would the double's worth after that?

I would leave it be and attempt to match pressure for pressure in the shotshells.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Proof - the real thing - is as close as you can get to knowing for sure that a gun is safe to shoot. Firing one, or a bunch, of heavy loads of unknown pressure does not constitute proof. Dependng on the gun and a 'smith's checkout, the gun may be fine for continued nitro. However, a good 'smith's opinion is good and proof is better. The Brits proof a lot of damascus and older guns for nitro. Keep in mind that typical BP loads are very similar to CIP nitro loads.

To answer the question---- What those fellows said.
Best,
John

Raimey: John Farugia of Cheshire Gun Room, Stockport, UK just sleeved a J. Thorpe Bartram 28 bore for me, cost 550GBP (that's @ $1,100.00) It is presently at the proof house. He does an excellent job.

Best Regards, George L

George:

What was the approx. value before and after sleeving? Also, will the barrels be stamped "lined" or "sleeved?"

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse