doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ithaca Classic Doubles

Tom, I own a 28 ga., 4710XX numbered ICD 4E and I love it. I guess the fact that they only made fewer than 300 guns in total explains why you don't hear much about them. Mine is BT/PG double triggers. It weighed 5# 15 oz when I bought it but was a bit muzzle light. I removed almost 3 oz. of wood from the butt (scary job!), had the chokes opened to cyl/IC (they were an unmarked mod/I.mod when I got it) and it is now a perfect weight and balance for me for grouse, of which it has accounted for around a dozen already this season. Thanks for this thread; they are fun to discuss!
Joe

Joe,

When I first decided have an ICD made, I ordered a 16ga. over the phone. Since I only lived 80mi. away from the factory, the drove down to look at the operation. I was so favorably impressed, I ordered a 28ga. to match the 16ga. Somewhere along the way, I decided that I hated the basket weaving on the fences and didn't want the duck, but rather a grouse. Therefore, I had the pattern changed and the guns became 4ES's and the guns are numbered #1 and #2.

For those of you who like the new 4E pattern, you now know who planted the seed.

These are both single trigger guns with English stock and BTFE. The 28ga. arrived first and is probably the first #471xxx with a ST. (#4710xx). The 16ga. is the only gun made with 2 sets of 16ga. bbls.

Along the way, I picked up two 20ga. 4E's, both with DT's and another 28ga. with DT and SFE. They are all #471xxx guns which I prefer. I had an extra set of bbls. made for one of the 20ga. guns. The gun came with 26"bbls. and I had a set of 30"bbls. with Briley choke tubes fitted for Sporting Clays. I also had them make a BTFE which can be used with either set of bbls. I shoot this gun the best and take it everywhere.

I took my hunting partner down to the factory and he ordered a matched pair (20-28ga.) of 3E's with ST,ES, and BT. These are the only grade 3's ever made and have consecutive SNs. The are both Italian guns and are things of beauty. We spent a morning picking out the stocks and got first class American Walnut.

We will be taking these guns on our annual Canadian grouse hunt on Friday. What could be better than hunting grouse with English Setters and ICD's?

The guy that made the repro Ithaca guns (forgot his name, nice guy) had a booth set up at the SCI show in the early to mid 90s. I gave him $1000 and was told I would get one of the first guns. Two or three years later, still no gun, so I asked for my money back and he gladly sent me a check.

I should have held out, I was afraid they would fold up and I'd have no gun and no money. Wish I had one of those guns now.

I have just purchased a Model 4-E By Beschi a .410Ga. With 28" BBls. MFG in 2001 SER# is 4701XX range. It looks like a beautifully fitted shotgun with signed engraving by Ferri. It was Imported by OBI Oyster Bay N.Y. I have heard that the Beschi guns had issues and were not as good as the Ithaca Classic assembled gun. I did have a ICD 20Ga 4-E a few years ago, and this one looks and feels just like it. Quality wise they appear the same.

Tom,
I would love to see your Ithaca's some time. I spoke to them at length when they were in business, but at that time, did not have the money to order one. Before, I ordered my Fox last year, I would have paid them a visit if they were still in business. They were making some beautiful guns at the time.
Good luck on your grouse hunt. My time is coming soon.

Tom: I remember when the ICD's were advertised in journals, and I considered one, but at the time I was infatuated with getting a CSMC Fox. Never did either one, and the Foxes got too expensive.

I am leaving for about 6 weeks of grouse hunting with my Setter, GSP and favorite 16 and 12 in tow. They are not Ithaca's, but good English substitutes.

Does the ICD have a through bolt design like the RBL?

Good luck on your grouse hunting trip. Where in Canada do you go?

The Beschi guns were assembled with parts rejected by ICD. They are very identifiable even though they do have ICD serial numbers. The Ithaca Classic Doubles name has been xxx out. You should be careful of these guns because you never know who finally assembled them. That's not to say that some of these guns are dangerous. I know that a least one former ICD gunmaker assembled several of these and they're fine. BUT, buyer beware. Quality wise, they are not the same, especially when compared to the Krupp/VGM guns. Remember, ICD dumped the Italians because of quality issues.


Chicago, I go to Hornepayne,ON which is about mid Lake Superior and up. You can hunt anywhere you want. It's all Crown land and they have Shaptails, Ruffed and Spruce Grouse. Even though the Canadian dollar is now at par, you can do the whole trip (1 week) for not much more than $500. I have been doing this since 1998 and I have 40-50 good covers on my GPS. Having said this, you can go anywhere (there plenty of old logging trails) and find birds. We stay in town for about $65/night and they only other costs are gas, license and meals.

The Sharptails are found in clear-cuts that are all over. The cuts are regenerating and this hunting hasn't been as good in recent years. Don't be confused, there is nothing clear about a clear-cut. I refer to it as "hunting in a junkyard". You really have to spot the flock or sentry. They usually have a bird watching things from an old birch tree, the only ones still standing. You can see them from a mile or more away.

My sources tell me that Ruffed Grouse are up from last year, which is always good news.

By the way, I waited over 2yrs. for my first ICD gun. It makes the wait for my RBL seem less of an ordeal. That first gun was featured in an episode of Gray's Sporting Journal titled "The Fouling Piece".

The ICD does not have a through bolt.

When Tony first advertised the CSMC Fox, they were $5650 as I remember. That was way too much. I didn't order one. When Steve Lamboy started up with the ICD, my employer became a dealer and we watched ICDs come and go out of our shop, some good, some exceptional. A Field Grade non ejector prototype 28 that he sent us was the gun of my dreams. They were way too expensive, so, again, I didn't order one, even though my price was "wholesale minus". Finally, Steve made a prototype that I couldn't resist. He made a Super Ten and I had to have one. I had the order well thought out and ready to go when Steve told me that it would be awhile. OK, I said, so it will be awhile. I want the first one out. We all know the rest of the story, "No tens were completed." Oh, well. Bill Murphy

Bill,

Steve had the prototype in his office, I believe. I know you could have bought it for around $4,000. If we're talking about the same gun, it was a grade 4 20ga., Italian,DT, with extractors.

Of course, for $4,200 (less your discount) you could have had a custom 4E gun made to your specs with ejectors.

I think we both know these guns were steals. The quality of these guns was better than the Fox at the time and less money. Remember, the Fox had a cast receiver. This has since changed. I don't think you can get that same gun for less than $7,500 today.

From a design standpoint, I know Gunter Pfrommer much prefers the design of the Ithaca and he worked on both guns.

I think, from an aesthetic view, the ICD is much nicer than the original NID. The modern metalurgy means that the gun, with no design modification, has to be stronger and more durable.

I've put tens of thousands of rounds through my guns and they are still functioning flawlessly.

Seems that over and over the market has rejected/poo-pooed the cast receiver/frame on pretty much any gun. I would say that it has been mostly without merit that the cast reciever is percieved as inferior. Certainly an investment cast reciever of modern high strength steel would be an example of being a victim of early gun problems from castings. Heck, virtually every gun Ruger makes is cast. Not many failures on them that I've heard of. But the legend lives on...at a cost to the consumer.