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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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That's the trouble talking about American built doubles... all roads lead to and end at the repeaters!!!!
All the best
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,277 Likes: 209
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
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Pete, I always enjoy your posts. Engraving on my gun ? I wonder if one could search the Meriden and closeby records for engravers. I am sure that all of the Aubrey and Meriden guns I have seen had the same person doing the birds at least. All are fat, small winged, good eating birds for sure. This gun has the background taken out for the scroll, ala Holland and Holland, and unlike most scroll which is cut in. But, the birds are the same as described above. In the back of my mind I seem to remember some discussion years ago about the Aubrey engraver, but I cannnot "pull it up".
As to the Damascus barrels being in short supply, I have correspondence from Baker Gun and Forging Co. with a potential client stating that their gun production is very slow due to the unrest in Europe and the resultant barrel shortage. I think this was in the 1913 period. I do know some companies had large supplies of barrel blanks, but Baker was not among them. I think Fluid Steel blanks from overseas were affected as well, so it was not the shortage of the composite blanks as much as it was the shortage of all blanks.
Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 10/30/07 04:16 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Rocketman, Rev, and others. Yes, this is a good study of the American gun trade, and American merchandising. The start of the Meriden Firearms Co. in 1905 was the result of the ability of the merchandising scheme of Sears. They operated out of warehouses, with no retail overhead like other previous businesses. They sold guns for many name concerns,including ammunition, but at much lower prices than retail businesses. The complaints from the retail market were listened to by the major ammo and gun manufactures, one of which was Winchester. Winchester and others eventually refused to sell to the undercutter , Sears, so as to protect their retail style outlets. Sears was on top of things and actually connected with Andrew Fryberg to produce lots of inexpensive guns for the Sears under various names. In 1904, Fred Biffar, head of the gun etc sales for Sears contacted A J Aubrey to design and produce a sidelock double barrel to be sold by Sears. In 1905 the Meriden Firearms Co was started to do just that. They produced the Aubrey design and used Aubrey's name on the guns as "Manufactured by the Meriden Firearms Co." This worked well until 1909 when Richard Sears left the company [President of Sears] and then Fred Biffer and later Aubrey left, too. After Aubrey left, the guns were marked Meriden without the Aubrey name. Sears was also manufacturing their own ammunition and buying ammo from Europe and Canada to market. Around 1910 the shooting public's preferences for firearms began to change to the slide action firearm. By 1914 the demand for other types was diminishing for Sears and the Fryberg guns were stopped and by 1916, or so, the Meriden plant was sold to New England Westinghouse. Actually alot of guns were produced in that 10 year span. Sears eventually did sell Winchesters etc, but noted in their catalog that they were not allowed to discount prices. A wonderful history of this concern, by Jim Perkins, is found in the Dec. 2005 Gun Report. Daryl- I think the Meriden and AJ Aubrey lines may have been sold at the same time, at least for a brief period of time. Drew has a Meriden catalogue from 1908 and the Sears catalogue from 1908 shows AJ Aubrey. Also, my Meriden has features of an early gun with the V springs and later versions of the Meriden and Aubrey appear to have used coil springs. I have been somewhat dubious of the story that Sears set out to manufacture their own line of American made firearms when the majors refused to sell to them because the 1908 catalogue shows firearms made by LC Smith, Remington, Ithaca, Baker, Winchester, Marlin, Stevens, Hopkins Allen, Harrington and Richardson, Smith and Wesson, Colt and Iver Johnson. So if the majors had any problem selling firearms to Sears, they got over it pretty quickly. I tend to buy the story Sears presents in the catalogue, and that was the motivation for creating their own factory was to deliver a better American product at a lower price (and thus could compete with the cheap, and cheaply made imports). I do however notice a general absence of any ammuntion other than their own "Pointer" shells and Meriden cartriges. So it could very well be that the majors were not willing to see their ammunition discounted and/or sold through Sears. I had better stop posting, I see my once glorious 5 star rating is now reduced to two- whoever I have offended, I am very sorry. Doug
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Post deleted by HomelessjOe
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,277 Likes: 209 |
dbadcraig,
Actually most of all I know comes from owning a half dozen of these guns and looking at another score or so. Then there is the article, apparently very well referenced, that I refered to. If we take that article to heart, and I suggest you read it, then the Meriden name came after Richard Sears left and after Biffar and Aubrey left, too. There are relationships with Savage and others mentioned in the article, but the gist of my synopsis seems ok. Now, not all big makers joined the "cartel" against sears, but several ammo companies and Winchester did as well as some hinted at other gun makers. These cartells eventually gave in, as Sears, who for example sold millions of .22 shells , came up with their own manufacturing sources and foreign sources. All sort of interesting, as when Richard Sears took ill and quit, his successor was not the "gun" man that Sears was. Your theory could very well douse the article I quoted if we had catalogs from Sears from 1905 thru 1908.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Daryl-
Thanks and no doubt you and those who researched and wrote the articles know far more than I. I am nonetheless left dubious- particularly over the Meriden name being post AJ Aubrey when Drew has a Meriden catalogue from 1908 and my Sears 1908 reprint has AJ Aubrey. As you note if Winchester or any of the listed makers did cease sales to Sears, it was certainly short lived and the firearms Meriden lists in the 1908 catalogue are double barreled shotguns and break open revolvers, not exactly what Winchester would have been selling then. The major US double gun makers would have been Parker, Ithaca and LC Smith right? Of those only Parker isn't sold by Sears in 1908.
Anyone have those earlier catalogues in their library?
Doug
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,432 Likes: 316 |
Doug: my 1902 Sears Catalog # 111 shows Smith guns up to No. 3 and Pigeon, Remington 1895 B grade, Ithaca up to Grade 2, Baker up to the Paragon, Parker up to VH, Winchester 97', and rifles by Marlin and Winchester. The shotshells are un-named but "are made for us under contract by one of the best makers in America."
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
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From the Census for AJ Aubrey 1910 New Haven, CT - Guns 1920 Santa Clara, CA - Sporting Goods 1930 Stanta Clara, CA - Gunsmith From the Meriden City Directory. The 1909 directory is not available. The color highlighting is from the search engine. 1906 Directory  1908 Directory  1910 Directory  The 1906 Sears Catalog has AJ Aubrey shotguns, but no Meriden shotguns. Pete
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
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http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?for...S&geodiff=1This must be the place. It's depressing to have to remember when Chicago was a firearms owners friendly locale!! jim
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,277 Likes: 209 |
dbadcraig,
The reason I questioned Drew about his catalog, is that I don't think it is a 1908 catalog, but 1910 or later. My original, which must be similar to his, is annotated in ink pen along with a 40% discount in 1910. I believe Drew's catalog does not say anywhere it is from 1908 . As soon as Aubrey left, the guns ceased having his name. I cannot find similar models , with similar serial no. ranges, that mix the Meriden and Aubrey marks. These may be out there, but I have not seen them. My thought is that when Meriden was used as the gun's name, the grade designation changed, too.
Pete, thanks for the timeline.
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