doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com O/U - Bockbüchsflinte Rifle Caliber Question

I'm not sure if my ability to find stuff on the intermess has gotten worse, of if the sites are gone.
Trying to determine the caliber of this rifle barrel. Shotgun barrel is 32ga

I believe all pertinent marks are shown in this one pic.
My best guess is 5.6x52R though the bore appears to be larger.

Yeah, I should slug bore and cast chamber, but I am going for the quick and easy answer.

I would @ least measure it. Interesting that the bore diameter seems to be missing. Can you make a stab @ the diameter?

Made in Zella - Mehlis by some of the Best in 1918(1913??). Tubes by Syndicat Liégeois.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Will slug the muzzle later today. Will also double check for bore diameter marks.

Date is 1918

Date is 1918....or 1913.
Roll the barrel under the light and a strong case can be made for both. I filled the stamp with a white grease pencil and still cannot decide if it is a '3' or an '8'.

Bore diameter is .261"
Measured by driving a soft lead slug into the muzzle.
Eight wide grooves with very narrow lands.

Rim diameter is .510" if that will help identify the cartridge.

given the .510 rim diameter...and the 6.3 marking, i would suspect it is 25-35 winchester. they saw quite a bit of use in that era, and prior to the great war, a lot of germanic guns were marked with barrel diameters of the lands, rather than the "true" bores.

i had examined an older drilling not long ago that was marked 6.3 x 52r, and slugged properly with .257 bullet.

best regards,

tom

Tom,

Seems reasonable.
I was reading that as 63mm and trying to find a case that length.

Of course I traded the three boxes of 25-35 I had for gun parts a couple of weeks ago.

Oh, there's a comma in there: 6,3mm..... Yes, 6,3X52R would be correct. Still, very, very odd that the chamber length isn't present.

F.K. could point to Franz König, maybe Fritz König. By the way, there were so many König mechanics in Zella - Mehlis that would couldn't stir them with a stick(probably a total of 100 or more over time). But any Franz K. or Fritz K., etc. in Zella-Mehils might be a match.

SS more than likely is Suhl barrel mechanic Stephan Schilling.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Fr. Neuber & Sohn

Looked again, and no comma where it should be.
Good catch Tom.

I suggest someone make a chamber cast to determine the nominal cartridge for this rifle. The 6,3 is proper for the 6.5x52R(25-35), but the absence of a case length is troubling as is groove diameter determined by slugging the barrel (0.261"). Depending on barrel markings alone sometimes causes confusion between 6.5x52R(25-35Winchester) and 6.5x58R. Most 6.5x58R rifles take a bullet smaller than the normal 6.5 bullet diameter of 0.264" but larger than the normal 25 caliber diameter of 0.257". My own takes a 0.260" bullet but many (maybe more) take a 0.261" bullet, neither of which are commercially available, so some handloaders are advised to use 0.257" bullets. Other handloaders resize 0.264"(6.5mm) bullets to the diameter required by their rifle. To make the confusion even worse, 6.5x58R is mostly loaded in 30-30 head size cases, which includes 25-35Winchester. I resize original length 38-55 cases and modify the rims to fit (which removes the headstamp). If a prior owner modified the rim recess to accept American rims, it is easy to see how a 6.5x58R rifle could come with ammo loaded in cases with 25-35 headstamps and 0.257" bullets. The 6,5x52R is a necked case and the 6.5x58R is a straight tapered case. A chamber cast will show the nominal caliber. Also, a factory loaded 25-35 will not chamber in a 6.5x58R, but a 6.5x58R cartridge loaded in a(shorter) 25-35 case with a 0.257" bullet will likely chamber in a 6.5x52R rifle (and if fired would fireform back to a necked case). To quote the King of Siam, "is a puzzlement".
Mike

No ammo came with this rifle.
I was referring to ammo from another source that I traded away.

Appears I will not be avoiding a chamber cast but it will have to wait. I have 41 firearms that need logged in/out of my bound book. That will take the rest of the day and a good part of tomorrow.