doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Blued?

Looking for advice and council on my recently acquired 1959 Union Armera M205E (Grulla) 12 gauge,
the 1st picture kind of shows that the barrels are almost same color as the receiver,
2nd pic shows what appears to me a "re blue" drip,
3rd shows a darkened spot, another drip,
4th & 5th pic show muzzle ends - the dark spots on pic 4 are NOT pits,
picture 6 shows a 2" bare spot, it's not a scratch.
I have had the gun looked at by a long-time gunsmith, his comments are: "the barrels inside are pristine, the thickness is in the high 30's, gun is made when they knew how to make guns, fabulous condition, mechanically very clean I just oiled the parts, pins fire almost dead center, I'd shot this all day long"
Ok, gun is in great shape, but I was thinking about have the barrels reblued, more of a cosmetic issue. Should I get them reblued? Possibly getting it Cerakote?

I understand the value of originality but if the barrels have already been reblued in the past then originality already eliminated. do you think the barrels were reblued?
This gun is a keeper for me, so I don't care about resale, it will be my kid's problem. Thanks in advance for your opinions.


M205E

Drip mark?

Another drip?

Barrel ends


Bare streak

Cerakote? Really? And you are asking about originality issues?


Go ahead and blue them. Not particularly a collectible and if it’s a shooter, at some point proper maintenance trumps cult of originality.

Edit to add: I don't in any way mean to slag the gun. Sounds like a really nice one. But that isn't the issue.

I agree with canvasback about the Cerakote. The blemishes remind me of a blue job carried out in winter(poor) light. The barrels can be de-greased with acetone after disassembly and the barrels re-blued without re-polishing. A couple passes of slow rust bluing, carefully done in good light should do the job, without a lot of time or expense. Polishing is what takes the most time and where the most likelihood of damage lies.
Mike

Bluing?
I would call that 'patina', the signs of a useful life in the field, many exceptional adventures. Leave it as it is.

You should see the barrels of my 1946 Webley 600 boxlock ...

HB

"Cerakote? Really? And you are asking about originality issues?"
I'm not really even remotely considering Cerakote, just put it out there to see what kind of response I'd get.

My real question is do you think the barrels have already been reblued at some point in their life?

I personally will not be doing the re-blue - if it is done, it will be done correctly - it would be sent off to someone that specializes in re-blueing.

If you want those barrels to look good again and correct, they’ll have to be polished and all of that old blacking removed. Anything else would be half assed. I don’t like putting new rust blacking over old, worn or heavily patina’d blacking. It never blends right, especially when you look at the barrels in good light. Easier to just strip it all off and start with clean bare metal.

Dustin

As for your two questions:

“Do you think the barrels were re-blued?” Seems so to me but there are plenty of experts here (starting with Dustin above) who can answer that definitively.

And …

“Should I get them re-blued?” That’s a purely personal question and should have a subjective answer. You didn’t ask if I (we) would re-blue them. And that’s probably just as well as you’d get subjective answers with justifications. And there’s nothing wrong with that. These are our guns. We’re the stewards of them for this chapter of their existence and then they go on to the next fellow. Make yourself happy and in so doing make yourself part of the history of the gun. That’s good…and good enough.

Meanwhile, enjoy your fine gun in good health.

The eye of the beholder!

Hard to say if your barrels have been reblued at some point. The streak in pic #2 could have been there all along, and just became more evident as the barrel bluing thinned and wore over time.

I agree completely with Dustin on the need for proper barrel prep, should you decide to reblue them. With this gun, I think it would not hurt the value one bit. It would probably enhance the value. Cerrakote would be a great way to lower the value. So now you need to find someone who can do it right, and your new concerns are shipping both ways without loss or damage.

for me, it's a matter of "honest wear"....late last year i sold a gibbs underlever hammer 12ga (1879-80 likely) that had been rebarreled with fluid barrels under the 1925-54 proving rules (evidently by the gibbs shop). at some later point, it had been completely "restored", and had been honed (7 thou on the left, and 12 thou on right). it had not been reproved, so my assumption was it had been reworked stateside....the work was professional caliber, the price was fair - i had bought it early last year. shot it a few times with 5500psi reloads...and would characterize the gun as "eye-candy".

i enjoyed having the gun, but had a chance to sell for a couple hundred more than i had paid....and did so without hesitation - the gun simply was not honest enough to capture my long term affection. i appreciate the concept of "sympathic restoration", and am somewhat affronted by the overboard approach of making an old gun look "new".

i have, and have had, a few extremely high condition guns - most of which i am/was loath to carry afield. i would rather have a fine gun that can be used without the attendant nagging fear of a scrape or blemish being added. at the price-point that i live with, i want to consider my guns as finely crafted tools...not as artifacts.

as stated above...knock yer lights out - and enjoy your gun...

best regards,

tom