doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Questions on an English Sporting rifle:

I’m doing a bit of restoration work on a Benjamin Woodward & Sons, London percussion single barrel sporting rifle. The bore is .634” with two .295” wide groves that measure .6995”. At first I thought it was made for a banded ball but the twist is 1-30” which I would think is to fast for a ball. Anyone have an idea on the proper bullet for it?


Another interesting thing about the rifle is it has a stalking safety but instead of a notch in the hammer there in one on the tumbler, is this a holdover from flintlock days?

Thanks, MP

WOOD1
WOOD2
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Those are amazingly deep grooves. I wonder if a minie ball would be correct? You might get a round ball to shoot, but my guess is that it would be a very light load - 40-50 grn of powder.

I have a similar caliber english rifle though the grooves are much less deep. It uses a roundball with a light load but the twist is also about 50" rather than 30".

Beautiful locks. Don't spare the pictures of the rest of the rifle on my account. How old do you think it is?

Brent

Brent,
Not much to take a picture of, just a pile of parts right now. Both thimbles and the ramrod were gone, the nipple battered, the muzzle battered, the lock gummed up, the main lock screw buggered and a few things I can’t think of right now. When I get to the point of putting it all back together I’ll post a picture. A nice rifle with a lot of neglect but on the good side I bought it thinking that it was smooth-bored and would have to reline it. I would expect a twist for round ball in the 50-70” area but can never tell until I try some things. I’m guessing early percussion period but that’s because of the safety.

MP

I think that it may be Jacob rifling. Grant talks about it having four deep grooves and a twist of about 1/30" using pointed bullets with projecting wings to fit into the grooves. Apparently such rifling was accurate, but resulted in heavy recoil and quick deceleration, thus poor trajectory.

Yup.

Sounds like it's set up for belted or winged bullets.
You'll see moulds for them from time to time.
I think Peter Dyson and Sons has a mould that might work out for that rifle, as I recall it's expensive though.

At the suggestion of a friend I pulled my copy of English Rifles by George and found the information on “Banded Ball” and see they were both ball & bullet with the wings and the 1-30 twist was original but later changed. I may try to make the mould but don’t have a shaper so not sure how, I’ll have to think about it. Thanks, MP

Dyson's mould is the right gauge but for a four groove barrel.

Ready to go, just need some bullets, anyone know where I can get some 16 gauge slugs with a skirt?

You might also look into a sabot. That would also deal with the drag issue I mentioned above.

There must have been lots of experimenting with twist rates.I have a .60 bore two grove G.Gibbs with about 1/3 of a turn in a 30" barrel.For a belted ball mould,try Jeff Tanner at http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/

I think it takes some sort of banded bullet. I wonder though if it would shoot a solid conical design. A custom mold won't be cheap. Perhaps you could try the old Lyman minie ball for thr 69 caliber musket. I would try to cut the noses to remove weight. Then you can test it. You could also try using a 20 gauge slug in a Ballistic products BP12 wad for a sabot. Good luck Greg