doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Good manners

Really? And here I thought he lived at 10 Downing Street!

Being a Shropshire lad yourself, salopian, perhaps you could explain the phrase "the land of lost content"? Does it express the UK's loss of happiness (i.e., con-TENT)- or loss of significance (i.e., CON-tent)? Or both?

Conversations in which the term "gentlemen" is bandied about always carry a faint whiff of 'the other' board. Heaven preserve us!

Yes, this is a great place to be and you guys are the best. Hope everyone likes coming here as much as I do and chewing the fat, so to speak.

Although I continued to "lurk", I too became somewhat alienated by the tone of some of the untoward comments made by a few posters to this forum; and therefore haven't contributed any posts for some time. But this topic of manners and gentlemen has prompted me to relate an experience just enjoyed with a couple of forum members that was quite a demonstration of unselfishness; and ultimately, very beneficial to me personally. It seems a GB seller had posted for sale a very seldom seen example of the SAC 20-bore A Grade ejector with Krupp barrels. This little gun is well-used and retains very little original finish; but was intact with original stocks. I immediately placed a bid; but it wasn't long before my bid was topped. I happened to recognize the second bidder's handle; it was forum member Ross Berck with whom I had communicated often regarding SAC guns. Considering it foolishness for Ross and I to be bidding against each other, I contacted Ross regarding my interest in the gun. Without ever being asked, Ross volunteered that he would not bid against me. I was thrilled at his generosity; but told him that my bid would be limited to a certain amount (far below the amount Ross said he was willing to bid); and to be sure and not hesitate to bid on the gun in the event my break-point was exceeded. Shortly afterwards I was contacted by another member of this forum, Harry Sanders, who also expressed interest in the gun. When I explained to Harry the above "game plan" Ross and I were endeavoring to execute, Harry generously volunteered not to bid. When the dust eventually settled, I was the proud new owner/care-giver of a SAC 20-bore; and at a very reasonable price! I had searched for an affordable example for the past 19 years; for although I had seen and handled a couple of examples, I had never had an example I could actually study (disassemble) for my SAC research. Obviously, had either Ross or Harry really wanted this gun it could have easily been theirs for the taking; and perhaps there were other unknown posters to this forum equally interested in this little gun, but also recognzed Ross or me as a bidder and graciously elected to pass on the opportunity. But my point is that I am humbled by the generousity and kindness shown directly to me by Ross and Harry (and also to any other unknown, but gracious forum member); and even more grateful that their kindness has allowed the addition of this seldom seen piece to my small SAC gun collection. Although it should have been obvious, I never realized prior to this personal experience that similar events take place between the genttelmanly members of this forum of a regular basis. Most importantly, the realization of this fact has opened my eyes to another obvious fact; the fact that the vast, vast majority of the posters to this forum are indeed gentleman of the first order, men who make it a point to observe the good manners they learned as a child. As with almost everything else in life, it seems our human focus often centers on the negative; which inspires me to take a few minutes to emphasize some positives. Among the many positives regularly demonstrated on/thru this forum is the willingness of members to share a "new discovery" (as was demonstrated by Ross and Harry), the willingness and generosity regularly demonstrated by the most knowlegeable double gun men in the nation as regards the sharing of their time and experiences, the willingness demonstrated by forum members in sharing their personal reseach in efforts to educate and inform so that all can avoid costly mistakes, the fact that this forum attracts the most knowlegeable double gun collectors extant and now enjoys the well-earned reputation of the best forum of its type and being heads and shoulders above anything available; etc. I've rambled far too long, so will close by stating that I sincerly hope my own trival research efforts have contributed in some small way to the knowlege base of this forum; but most of all I hope that I will always be deemed by my peers as a person willing to share his time and whatever information he has learned with all who are interested in the fascinating world of double guns. Regards, Tom Archer

Jack 'land of lost content' refers to a museum in Craven Arms that is a collection of bygone artifacts preserved for all to relive their childhood or to see how Grandma lived.Three floors of what we all have thrown out during 'modernity'.
Just had a thought! I wonder if there are any Greeners or BSA's or Webleys propped up behind the doors or in the wardrobes? Better get over there and have a look.

A museum? Tut tut, salopian! Even though my question was rhetorical (and meant to be a bit cheeky), let us give credit where credit is due:

Into my heart an air that kills
From yon far country blows.
What are those blue remember'd hills ?
What spires, what farms are those ?

That is the land of lost content.
I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went
And cannot come again.

A. E. Housman

Housman certainly pre-dated the Craven Arms museum. Could it be that a true 'salopian' doesn't know these lines from A Shropshire Lad?

Tom,

Although your auction story had a good outcome for you, what you all did is termed collusion, a bidding ring, and is usually against the law. Had the seller done the same thing to drive the price up it would have been called shill bidding and folks would be screaming for his head.

And what if the seller is also a member of this board?

Brother Tom,
Good to hear from you. I hope you didn't get too much snow!
Yes, there are many good people on this board. Hopefully civility will return to this site.
Congratulations on your new aquisition.
Chris

Perhaps those who were discourteous may heed these words.


You smile upon your friend to-day,
To-day his ills are over;
You hearken to the lover's say,
And happy is the lover.

'Tis late to hearken, late to smile,
But better late than never;
I shall have lived a little while
Before I die for ever

A E Housman

Housman was actually a Worcestershire lad born at Focbury but living his early years and schooling at Bromsgrove in Worcestershire.He admitted 'he hardly ever visited Shropshire but gazed upon its hills on his western horizon'
I sent Rabbit a calendar with views of 'the land of lost content' perhaps he could post a few here to brighten the winter up. If it really is a land that has lost something, I may have the answer, because whenever I shoot or walk there I find all the contentment one could ever wish for.

I just happen to be looking at a rocky outcrop atop Hope Bowdler Hill (Church Stretton) on the wall opposite (subject for Jan). Not so different from the perennial Yankee fuel company calendar except the landscapes have been moved north and east and over the big pond. Perhaps "lost content" is the scenes and outlook of youth. Bit different in the trenches on the western front. Hope all well with you and yours, Sal.

jack

Incidentally, it's not often that the wild hare gets mentioned in the company of the abominable, the dirty, and the angelically sweet!

Rob:
Perhaps my writing skills are so poor that my story lead you to an erroneous conclusion; however, since I now stand acused of criminal conduct, I am compelled to defend my actions. First of all, there is a huge difference between the simple discussion of a gun, or any other object offered for sale, by two or more individuals; and the act of collusion, or conspiring for the purposes of price fixing. At no point in any contacts with Ross or Harry was there ever any discussion of how we could/should work together to set/fix a price on this gun; or, in any manner, keep the price of the gun low. In the course of a converstion with Ross I voluntarily provided Ross with my maximum bid number as that amount represented my opinion of this gun's value, but that discussion was not shared with Harry (all Harry knew was that Ross and I were interested in the gun). For reasons known only to Ross and Harry, they elected to allow me first dibbs on this gun; however at no time was either individual asked, nor was it implied that I receive such concession! Again, I am at a loss to understand why, other than the fact that these men obviously have a generous spirit, they should be so gracious to me personally; and although I was thrilled to be allowed that courtsey, there was absolutely no certainty at any time during the entire auction period that the gavel would drop in my favor. And although Harry didn't share his plans with me, Ross had planned to begin bidding if/whenever the auction price exceeded my max; which I assure everyone not a large amount. The auction lasted 7 (maybe 8 days?), during which time the gun was posted for the entire world to see. The gun was viewed many times, and was also bid on by others; one of whom was the oft and viciously maligned (by some members of this forum) ED1, who stopped bidding presumably due to the fact that he was unwilling to bid any higher. Clearly the gun was sold at what was deemed a fair price by the interested participants.
Now trusting that everyone clearly understands the facts of this matter, I shall ask the following; how many readers can recall the numerous times they have read member posts regarding items in various auctions where a comment of this nature was made "I didn't bid on that gun because I knew you were bidding and I didn't want to bid against you"? With such being the case, why then would an action such as just described be considered noble and my actions "collusion" with intent to price fix? And we all know such discussions take place on a regular basis; a fact especially true at live auctions where friendly collectors with common interests regularly discuss an item/s prior to bidding commencement. Do these friendly discussions actually constitute illegal criminal activity? If so, do those forum members presently engaging in such illegalities realize this is criminal conduct and they are therefore subject to prosecution under existing collusion statures? I personally think not, as such individuals still possess no advance knowlege of the bidding plans of others who will be participating.
As to the dealer, I have no idea if he is affiliated with this forum or not; but he seemed to be very pleased with the auction results; and, at my request, stated he would be glad to see if he could research any history of the gun. Most likely the dealer chose to sell this gun via on-line auction, as opposed to over the shelf in his shop, because he knew it would fetch more dollars sold in that manner than it would ever bring if limited to his local customer base. I have no idea what the dealer felt this gun would/should fetch at auction; but presume he would have placed a reserve price on the gun had he felt it should command a specific dollar amount. Once again, there was never at any time any attempts by me, or the aforementioned individuals, to set the price of this gun or in any manner defraud this dealer. If viewers of the auction had felt the gun was more valuable; then that feeling would have been reflected in the final selling price, and I am insulted that anyone should make such sweeping and totally unfounded charges of collusion for the purposes of price fixing!
I haven't forgotten that the original subject of this thread was manners; and when I posted last evening I believed that my remarks would be viewed within the positive context of good manners, gentlemanliness, and generosity. Although I have no idea how my comments will be received, I have made every effort to present my responce in a gentlemanly and mannerly fashion. My sincere apologies to all for screwing up this thread so badly. Going forward I shall be much more cautious in the event I should ever get the itch to make another post.

Mr. Schotz, good to hear from my friend in the great frozen north country! Seems I've somehow misplaced your telephone number, send same in an email so that I can give you a call.
Tom