Larry implies that the posters are claiming that there are no loose American guns. We don't claim that at all. What we are claiming is that a quality American double, set up tight and lubricated, will not loosen on the hinge in a lifetime of shooting with reasonable loads. Obviously heavily used L.C. Smiths and Foxes are rarely found loose when closed. Parker singles are seldom found in a loosened condition after tens of thousands of rounds. In the early period of their manufacture, 1 1/4 ounce loads were commonly used on the trap field.