Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: TwiceBarrel
Perhaps the 1940 shooters bible did publish an average or target weight most probably based on input from Savage's marketing people and we all know how accurate/honest they can be now don't we. But Mr. Brown you are dead wrong in your statement that the barrel weight stamped on the barrels will determine the final finished weight it is an indicator but nothing more.


You suppose those folks at Savage (and Fox before them) spent any time trying to balance those guns before they sold them, TB? I do. If they didn't do that, they would have been putting out some guns with some very unusual (read undesireable) handling characteristics--like the balance point out close to the forend, if you have really long, heavy barrels matched up to a really light piece of stock wood. Somehow, I don't think that would've been real good for their reputation.

Here's a little experiment for you to conduct: Get yourself a good scale (like electronic postal) and a handful of doubles, preferably as they came from the factory. I just did that (although 2 of mine have pads), and here's what I found: the greatest difference between the weight of the barrels and forend, together, and the stock and receiver was . . . 4 ounces. In one case, less than an ounce difference between the two. Now if you consider that Fox had 12 ounces difference to work with, at any given barrel length between heaviest and lightest, I'd say barrel weight is a whole lot more than an "indicator" of final weight--because if Mr. Smith wants his 28" Sterlingworth to weigh as close to 7# as possible, it's a dead certainty Fox/Savage would not slap heavy #1 (4/2) or #2 (3/14) barrels on that gun; highly unlikely even #3, at 3/10. And yes, I know wood density will always cause variations of 2 or 3 ounces one way or the other . . . but don't you suppose those guys could find a stock and forend that would match up nicely with Smith's desires--and yes, one could order a Sterlingworth just like one could order a graded Fox--and, together with those barrels weighing 3/4, give him something awfully close to 7#? And would you think, even in a gun that's not special ordered, even shipped to Acme Hardware, those guys at Fox would take a set of 4# 28" barrels, slap on a forend . . . and then mate it up with a 3 1/2# stock/receiver? Sterlingworths (and Trojans, and Ithaca and Elsie Fields) may have been the "knockabout" guns made by those companies, but they did not do stupid stuff like turn out guns with godawful balance. So you give me the overall weight of a Fox as it came from the factory, tell me if it's splinter or beavertail and whether it has ejectors or not, and if you give me the length of the barrels, I'll tell you what # they are. Could possibly be off one number, either high or low (maybe someone cleaned out pits, opened chokes, etc), but I think it's that good of an "indicator".


Larry I have no interest or intent in participating in your silly little "experiment" because it has absolutely no bearing one way or another on the facts that that I have presented. Dave Noreen or Mr. John Callahan are the two preeminent experts on Foxes that I know. If they fail to corroborate my statements I will change my opinion but remember there are two statements that need to be commented on ("The numbers assigned to barrels prior to striking was done to assist the joiner in selecting barrels of like weight to facilitate finishing) and "the weight number assigned to the raw barrels before striking is an indicator of final weight but nothing more in fact is was common that when lighter weight barrels were not available heavier barrels were heavily struck to obtain the desired weight". Additionally contrary to McIntosh's statement that "weight stamps are nearly always clear and crisp on heavy guns, decidedly faint and blurred on lighter guns" is opposite of my own observations as my heavy weight barrel gun which is most likely a 2 is almost totally obliterated and the barrel weight codes on my four of my 3 weight barreled guns are very clear and distinct The barrels on my two 16 gauges that have the weight code obliterated most likely started life as 3 weight barrels a full 6 1/2 and 5 1/2 ounces heavier than their final finished weight if Fox would have been attempting to make these barrels to a specific weight they could have easily select 4 weight barrels and saved a whole lot of filing and polishing so as with Lefever guns with Fox guns the exception is often the rule and one should really avoid making broad sweeping proclamations.