Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: craigd
....Larry, your woodcock abstract should point out that you choose to state 'obviously they were relatively healthy'. What you fail to admit, is that there is enough environmental non shot sourced lead to be measurable in woodcock. I agree that woodcock can not be compared to ducks, but in close proximity to duck habitat, you say steel shot zone, there is enough environmental lead available to be toxic to a duck.

Back to apples and oranges, can you blame someone for questioning your contention that all available lead necessarily comes from shot. I pointed out numbers, because while you may split hairs about apples and oranges, the very presence of measurable won't go well for your case.

All I was asking is that if a study comes up concluding x or y, are you just going to agree that it was caused by lead shot. And, please don't hope for a moment that there aren't 'studies' that implicate ingested lead shot in pheasant lead levels, as I've been hinting about repeatedly.

Craig, you're confused . . .

....First of all, please show me ANYWHERE I've made the contention that "all available lead necessarily comes from shot"....

....And that woodcock study didn't have to tell me that doodles are likely to be exposed to lead from sources other than lead shot....

....Does not make sense to me that lead poses a significant danger to pheasants . . . and here's why: Pheasants are the major species featured in driven shoots in the UK and elsewhere. Those birds, unlike our preserve birds, have been "out and about" on the shoot grounds for several weeks (if not months) before they're shot....
....Those British birds, on the other hand, are much more akin to our wild birds....

I'll stick by my opinion about your first point and on the woodcock abstract.

Since you brought it up, try searching 'lead exposure in ring-necked pheasants on shooting estates in Great Britain'. That search is basically the exact wording, that you used in your 'logic' as 'proof'. But, you should see an abstract on researchgate.net or the same on jstor.org. Sorry, I don't know how to do a link, one thing we seem to have in common.

Not too bad, 437 birds, 4 different seasons or parts of seasons, 32 different shooting estates, and 'recommendations'. Nearly a fourth are said to be significantly tainted with lead. Why not be aware that stuff like this is floating around out there before concluding that it is akin to our wild birds?