Just experimenting with date identification. I picked this gun from Naturabuy.fr because the seller is a bit obstreperous and some write-ins in a manner uncharacteristically rude for the French, have challenged his identification:
http://www.naturabuy.fr/Fusil-Cal-10-Manufacture-Armes-Cycles-Saint-Etienne-item-2206991.htmlThe ad says it is a Manufrance Ideal Jones underlever hammer gun tested for PP Pyroxillees powder; SN 19416; Cal 10; "80 mm chambers." Barrels are “Ideal” Hercule 3 Palmes demi-bloc. The ad claims that it was only available by special order overseen by the director of the workshop himself and would date from the period 1906-1914. In subsequent queries the seller mentions it was stamped Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint- Etienne. He blurs some pictures and cuts others off - Barrel flats can't be read, etc).
As a test case, here is my analysis: It may date from 1892-1900 - probably closer to 1900;
— Manufrance - must be post 1885
— Ideal — must be post 1888
— Chambered in cm — must be1889 to 1912 (third picture of the forestock shows “Cal 10, 7.5 - belying his claim the chambers are 80mm).
— It is stamped with the “Cycles” address so must be post 1892.
— Proofed PP so probably pre-1900.
The problem comes with the SN - have no idea how many guns Manufrance made from its creation in 1885 but 19,000 guns in 15 years (assuming they were consecutively numbered - which may not be) seems like a lot. And I wonder about the "Cal 10": 10 gauge St-Etienne guns I've looked at over the last few months are usually labeled 19.2 or thereabouts, not "Cal 10." Might be on the barrel flats of course.
Any observations? Am I close? (I’m still learning).
