Larry and Ted, there are only 4 or 5 on the board who know something about French guns and I've learn a heck of a lot from both of you. As for the dispute about PJ...if PJ is stamped on the gun, it is a date maker for us. However, it's also nice to know the breakdown of the mixes of PJ as an intellectual exercise. So thanks to both of you for expanding our knowledge of the French gun industry at the turn of the century, a special interest of mine.

By the way, we've also established firmly that there were a lot of French guns at the turn of the last century being chambered for shells other than 65mm (6.5 cm). Wish we had a catalog for French shotgun shells from that time period along with the loads. Now that would be interesting. (edit: Why? Because I own a 1906 16ga Gerest Berthon Staint Etienne gun chambered for 7.0 cm)

In any event, here is another gun I'd like to date because I believe it gives a time marker for dating Zavattero Frerres shotgun serial numbers. This gun is on gunbroker: http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/688306821









The seller doesn't know the model or date - I believe it is Zavattero Frerres made between 1908-1912..SN 49697.
-- Per the last image I believe this is Zavattero Frerres (we went through this in another line and decided the letters in the oval were ZFr) http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=443491&page=1

-- Chambered in centimeters (cm) so 1889 - 1912
-- Proofed for PT - post 1900
-- Received a prize in London 1908 - so post 1908 (I've confirmed ZFr received a prize at the 1908 London Exhibition).




ZFr was founded in 1880 and lasted until 1965. (This gun doesn't have the CZ or FZ stamps which were ZFr models which came out in the 1920's).

I don't know the SN of the ZFr gun we commented on above (previous) line - it wasn't photographed. I believe the guns were consecutively numbered more or less....and will try to expand on this. There's a ZFr gun on Passion la chasse SN 97701 with a comment by Neltir which he dated to July 1951.
(Graph points:
.....1880 - 0;
.....1910 - 49697;
.....1951 - 97701 ( minus four years 1914-1918)(and 5 years 1940-45)
a graph could be constructed but the SN's for the company must exist somewhere because Neltir had the SN down to the month).
(http://www.passionlachasse.com/t22381-identification-fusil-juxtapose
The barrels for that gun were made in Belgium by Lovenfosse Hardy & Fils - I think he refers to the crossed rifles with stars at the bottom of the proof:




Last edited by Argo44; 09/09/17 10:41 PM.
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