Stopped by Fieldsport in TC today to chat with Bryan about the sorry state of affairs in upland hunting in Michigan. That discussion ended quickly as a friend of Bryans walked in and started an emotional discussion regarding the wolves killing dogs in the UP. He lost one of his prized ES's males this October to the wolves. Barely missing them getting a pup that scampered back to its owner when the fatal confrontation occured. This gentleman related this is the 11th dog he knows of that was killed this fall in the Hiawatha National forest by wolves. One group a pack of beagles. Stories of this kind are common lore in my neck of the woods and this sh*t has got to stop. Just today, the DNR announced a $7000 reward for naming the guy who recently killed a wolf in the western UP. But will not give this guy a dime for the loss of his dog. Time to get those wolves the hell out of Michigan. Anyone with a contact or story of losing a dog to the wolves,please speak up. Bear hounds really get hammered by the wolves in the summer. Deer hunters are fed up with the decline of whitetails in the northern part of the state. Wolves in the UP and the coyotes in the northern lower. DNR bans hunting coyotes during deer season as not to have a wolf mistaken for a coyote if the season is left open. Anyone hunting whitetail in western Ontario probably has first hand knowledge of the carnage a pack can have on a deer herd in just one year. Is this an issue with anyone else on this forum?? Tree huggers need not respond, I don't want to hear it. Randy
I shoot coyotes in self defense whenever I can.
Our pioneer forefathers killed off the top end predators because they insisted on eating the livestock, terrorizing the women and killing the children. Now the Bambi crowd wants to bring them all back.
Wolves in Yellowstone; OK, but panthers where I live; no way...Geo
Post deleted by Geo. Newbern
Its crazy.
Even in Europian Union our friends from Baltic countries get licence from time to time to thin out wolf packs, when they begin to eat dogs and livestock.
This photo from Estonia 1 week ago.
Same thing is happening in Wisconsin. DNR will pay for a dog the 1st time in an area. Afterthat it is a known wolf area and you go at your own risk!! Many deer hunters this year saw more wolves than deer. Lowest deer kill in many years. Wolves are now in areas much further south than they ever thought.
Ever hear of the shoot and don't tell law.
According to what I've been told the biggest cause of the decline in the anteope population here in Arizona is coyotes.
The sutuation here is getting crazy as I saw a bobcat cross the road in a residential subdivision a couple of weeks ago. Our DNR has trapped multiple bears in residential areas in recent years.
Jim
we finally got a season on the buggers here .
Dispite the fact that the population has grown faster then expected and long ago serpased the numbers originally defined by the re introduction groups
myself i enjoy seeing them in the wild. we have always had wolves here . but the numbers have always been so very low that you might only get to see one once or twice in a life time .
not now though . since the re introduction , forced on us by animal rights groups , they are now multiplying like crazy .
the big game herds , long ago lost their natural instincts dictating how they deal this predator .
If you need information on dog attacks , livestock attack , look to Idaho , Montana and Wyoming .
There are a number of reports to the IDF&G of bear hound hunters , losing their dogs or a dog or two to wolves . These are small beagle type dogs either
The wolves re introduced to these areas have now spread to bordering state like Oregon and Washington . The movement of these animals shown by tracking devices .
The real funny thing is that these same groups who forced the re introduction don’t want them in their home states . But sure are willing to force them on others
I been out 3 times specifically for wolves .
Again I have a tag . But I have not been lucky enough to bet close enough for a shot . When I have , I have not been ready for the encounter . That will change though
We just had a cougar shot here in Iowa last week and you should hear the comments! I like the thought that there are large predators out in the woods but I would not want to lose a dog or livestock to them.They need to be controlled and it is too bad that there is not enough space for us all in this country but large predators and humans cannot exist without friction.The lion has lost more of its habitat than any other large mammal in the world. They used to exist,not only in Africa,but in asia and large areas of the middle east. People just will not tolerate predators, no matter how beautiful or awe inspiring, when they munch on the kids or the pets.
Ever hear of the shoot and don't tell law.
jOe, thats the old 3-S rule; shoot, shovel,and shutup! Works pretty well on free-roaming dogs too.
A guy in a neighboring County near the Okeefinokee Swamp killed one of the Government's secret panther plants and hung the hide, complete with tracking collar in his barn. He didn't say a word abot it, but the G-men showed up anyway because the guy didn't know how to cut off the transmitter on the collar...Geo
The problem people are going to face with wolves is the fact that given enough time they will loose their fear of man...then we will see the first documented wolf attack.
People are too willing to let others pay the price for their actions and "dreams". If they want to bring back the wolves they should pay for the live stock and pets the wolves kill out of their own pockets. Not expect the life stock owners to freely give up their income. More to the point if I had live stock and a wolf came around I would protect my live stock. Bang. End of story.
Coyotes are now eating cats and dogs near where I live. People thought it was nice to hear and see them around. Now the same people are outraged that their property (pets) are being killed and eaten. Animal rights people are telling dog owners to keep their dogs inside 24 hours a day and the "conflict" will not occur. I expect if a few more Feefees and Fidos go missing the season on Coyotes is going to be open and enforced with a lot of effort to trim back the numbers of Coyotes and Coydogs. Maybe ranchers need to name their stock so others know that the loss of "Calvin" the calf is just as real as it would be for Bob the dog.
We've got this problem right now to a degree with coyotes here. I couple of kids were bitten a few years back.
They released Mexican Grey Wolfs here in Arizone awhile back but I haven't heard about problems with them yet.
Jim
Captchee has pretty much nailed it as to how things are out west re: wolf re-introduction at the moment. Dog depredation by wolves has been a significant problem at least here in the Bitterroot area of Montana, with over eight of them lost in the field the year before last. These losses primarily occurred among hunting dogs......specifically from among bird dogs and cat hounds.....something which should make PETA real happy.
Our elk and deer numbers are taking a substantial hit also, as are Idaho's, to where our hunter visits at the local game check station were down this fall by 25% (some 12,000+>>>8,000+). If this continues, the Montana Dept. of FWP - an advocate for the planned federal re-introduction, will be scrambling to see where their future revenues come from. As hunter success falls off (to only 6.2% this year in our area), a proportion of license-buying, revenue-creating hunters will find it easier to just stay home and watch the Sunday football game, as some obviously did this year.
Like Captchee, I, too, have always liked the idea of a
few wolves being out and about in our woods, but we now have 'political' science replacing sound wildlife management in most instances to where the majority of folks are sceptical of departmental decisions.
Montana had a permit season as well this fall with a quota of 75 wolves, 73 being harvested, and a very minute portion of these being breeding females. Federal judge, Donald Malloy, recently said that if the protectionists revise their legal case appropriately this time around, he is likely to return wolves to endangered species protection.....for a second time. All in all, the situation should be very interesting on its present course, as something has got to give.
As to those who shoot coyotes, save your ammo as the wolves will mop them up once they get to your area!
Rob Harris
Geno, Thanks for the posting of wolf hunting photo. Do you mind if I circulate it around Michigan, telling them it was taken this winter near Newberry in the UP?
Randy ( Geno, BTW, In your photo what is wound up in those reels, with the blaze orange flagging?? Do you string them out to funnel the wolves to the gunners?)
Robt Harris and Friends:
What is inflicting this problem on the world is NOT political science, which is the scientific study of power processes within and among organized groups and institutions,. This problem has been created by POLITICS.
The Greenies have convinced the legislatures of the various States, and Congress, that wolves are more important than livestock, dogs, cats and people's livelihood. 30 years ago, the wold was, apparently in sorry shape in North America, and the pendulum swung to their protection to prevent their feared extinction. Along with that went the program for population re-establishment. At no point did anyone but the most extreme Greenies intend for them to grow to the point that human activity was restricted.. ( hmm.. or maybe that was the plan originally ).
As for the DNR's lack of interest when your hunting dogs are killed, remember that State game departments are funded by the Legislatures, so they are unwilling to bite the hand that feeds them.
At any rate, there are now plenty or wolves, and we should move to establish a regulated hunting and trapping regime. If not, burgeoning wolf populations will continue to eat into ( excuse the pun) game populations, not to mention the snacking on domestic pets and extensive livestock depredation. As someone else suggested, if they lose their fear of man, watch out.
The odd fact is that the folks pushing this kind of Bambi-ite protectionism rarely leave the confines of the big city, and the most open land with which they are intimately familiar are the wolds of Central Park. For these folks, Idaho, Montana, Yooperland, West Texas and Arizona are simply "Fly-Over Country" where the the unwashed and un-enlightened live and work.
To return to my main premise - if you want regulated hunting of wolves, or some other population control, you need to take this up with your State legislator and Congressman. It was politics that got us to this point, and unfortunately, it will require politics to fix it.
Regards
GKT
Unfortunately yes it was politics .
But as we are finding out here in the west , states rights mean nothing . Going to your states congressman means nothing ..
Reason being is that the program that protects wolves is a federal one . As such when a state management department defines a needed harvest for management of ALL game .
The feds step in and say NOPE sorry . If a state then turns its back , the Fed fish and wildlife remove funding . As such the state departments then have to manage the big game herds without being able to manage a large predator and its increasing populations .
As such the original re-introduction agreements have long since been met and far surpassed . In fact to the point other states which did not or were not part of the re introduction are now also having to come up with plans to deal with a predator that they themselves said NOPE not happening here .
Imagine if you will your neighbor deciding to raise free range hogs . But had no way of controlling them after he got them . Eventually they effect your property .
But your hands are also tied and can do very little but stand and watch as they sloly dig up your corn fields
that’s just what we face here
Recently here an add was run by the wolf foundations just prior to the season opening .
It stated that more live stock is lost each year by the weather then is by wolves .
I would have to say that’s true ,.
However the weather is something none can control . Its an un controllable loss .
Loss by predators however is a controllable lose . One that can be reduce .
Geno,
As RMC asked:What is the orange stuff on the reels.
Doubt it is Christmas lights; you definitly have a purpose for that stuff.
Oh Greg,......give me a little credit, would ya'?
Didn't you notice the apostrophes bracketing my word 'political' in an effort to make it euphemistic? I'm saying the very same thing you are, in that politics often drive many wildlife management decisions these days to the detriment of practical management.
As for the rest of what you said, I couldn't agree with you more - and good on you for saying it.
Rob
Capt Chee:
Again- it goes back to the State Legislators.
If they refuse the Federal money, they have a great deal more freedom.
The question then is : do they have the balls to refuse the largesse of the Federal Gravy Train?
Regards
GKT
Greg, most game depts are funded (for the most part, if not entirely) by hunting license revenues. That and federal P-R $, which are based on the number of hunting licenses sold. If they get any general fund money, that's likely to be cut when there's a budget crunch (like there is in many states, right now). Therefore, what should really make sense to a state game dept is to promote HUNTING. If there's a problem with wolves hurting game populations, then that's likely to have a negative impact on license sales. So . . . they shouldn't care all that much about wolves, which have mostly been foisted on them by the feds, not the local politicos. And, as noted above, it's the Greens who don't seem to want any control at all--as in even very limited hunting--on wolves. Almost makes you think they'd like to eliminate hunting entirely--and in fact, I'm certain that's the agenda of at least some of them.
Larry:
I am sure the bulk of Greens would like to ban hunting entirely for several reasons:
Hunting is bad because-
1) It legitimizes private ownership of firearms
2) It legitimizes a culture of DIY - if a citizen can partly feed himself and protect himself, said citrizen might harbor ideas about doing for himself what the elites from Harvard and Berkely desire to do for him.
3) It reminds the sqeamish that Man is a carnivore with binocular vision . They would prefer to think of humanity as cud-chewing herbivores.
It comes back to the politics- in Congress and State Legislature.
If Legislature says "State Game Dept. establish controlled hunt for wolves" the Game Dept will do so.
Plus we must keep pressure on Congress, this isnt a Lib-Conserv issue, and even a liberal congressman, if he is from a rural or partly rural area, will ignore his constituents at his peril, unless he wants to kiss up to the Speaker.
It is the only way to play this game. Or resort to the "3-S" method.
Regards
GKT
RMS and Bridge Boy, the red stuff on reels is red flags attached to the thin, but strong rope, flags aprx. 1 yard from each other.
Wolfs are very affraid of it and can't cross the red flags line, exept cases, when you shoot wolf just near the line or other animals such as boars or mooses break the line.
When location of wolf pack determed, hunters begin to hang this flags around pack. Needed total length of flags on rope is about 3,5-5 miles. Usualy this work takes about 1 day. The other day is hunting day.
There are several methods to shoot surrounded wolfs.
First method is driving. One part of the line will be opened the next day to make some kind of corridor, where hunters have to wait for wolfs.
Second method - one or two hunters, we call them ruffs, just walking inside surrounded area and the rest of hunters stand right down the line inside about 50-100 or more yards (depends on # of hunters) from each other and wait for coming wolfs. This method makes it possible to shoot sorrounded wolfs for several days and weeks even untill all wolfs will be killed.
Capt Chee:
Again- it goes back to the State Legislators.
If they refuse the Federal money, they have a great deal more freedom.
The question then is : do they have the balls to refuse the largesse of the Federal Gravy Train?
Regards
GKT
true but there lays the big rub .
here the F&G funding is not part of the Tax base . IE its funded though licenses and tags .
However even then because Idaho has so much federally managed lands , the fed also sends money
. Case in point that’s un wolf related .
Idaho for years had a traditional muzzle loading hunt .
Part of the rules stated no optics .
A well known modern muzzleloading writer found out that states get federal funding for management through the federal system and that system had strict guidelines concerning that funding
Thus he filed a lawsuit claiming age and handicap discrimination against states who did not allow scopes for muzzle loading hunts , as a way to force the acceptance of his chosen personal opinions
At first most folks simply laughed .
When all was said and done he lost . But in part he won , because the fed came down and required the states to submit a plan to deal with the issue or lose funding .
Not real worrisome . However money had to be spent .
So if a state like Idaho said bugger off to the million of federal funding which far exceeds the amount of state dollar income , it would not be good for the state .
Management here isn’t IMO good now with the funding we have . It would be much worse if we lost federal funding
it’s a catch 22 , it really is
Personally I would like nothing better to see this sate give the big finger to the fed and the horse it road in on .
Not only on the wolf issue but on many other issues as well .
The fed hand as nothing but blackmail .
but i also understand that its a big complicated issue
"( Geno, BTW, In your photo what is wound up in those reels, with the blaze orange flagging?? Do you string them out to funnel the wolves to the gunners?)"
It is a rope with pieces of fabric attached used as a barrier, corral, what have you, to encircle an area known to have wolves. The fabric has a strong human scent.
I have seen it used in eastern Poland & Hungary (Carpathian Mountains) to hold prey for an organised drive. Works well. I am pretty sure the Estonians use a similar method.
Some of my Native American relatives in northern Labrador deal with Wolves with Prestone anti-freeze. Does not freeze, attractive to dogs- all dogs-domestic or wild. not very legal but very effective.
Practice the Wisconsin Wolf Management Program. Shoot, Shovel, And shut up! There are places I can't hunt my beagles anymore! As for Grouse season when one of my Springers goes in deep to the side I worry. Fishers and wolfs are a BIG problem. SHOOT, SHOVEL, AND SHUT UP!!!!!!!
RMC dont Circulate that it was from Newberry say it was from Mcmillan, I live in Newberry and would prolly be one of the first to get Questioned!!!
I guess Pennsylvania isn't the only state whose Game Commission has been taken over by anti-hunters. Our problem now is that with the sale of timber, gas, and oil from our State Game Lands (especially now since they sit on top of rich Marcellus Shale Deposit reserves) they really don't seem to care what the hunters or legislators think. Death threats are rumored to be the cause of Dr. Gary Alts' departure from our commonwealth. He was the pseudo-biologist who made our white-tailed deer an endangered species. It's a shame no one followed through on those threats, in my opinion. I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.
Minnesota never managed to get rid of the bastards.....they are such poor shots,trappers, shoot-shovel-shutuppers and poisoners the vermin used the state to stage a comeback in the UP and Wisconsin.
Don't hear much doom and gloom from them though...meybe they don't have computers?
Or they did have computers and the wolves ate them?
Ted?
Wolf, the OTHER white meat,
Mark
Older Doc-
Thanks for posting that. Real smart. What if some nut job reads it and decides to put out some "anti-freeze" traps of their own?
Then someone's hunting dog drinks it and dies a slow, painful death from kidney failure.
OWD
Not much documentation on the wolf/dog killing. Bringing the wolves down to a token population probably needs to be implemented. Stats from David Meach, noted wildlife biologist reports a wolf will kill 15-20 deer a year. If the Michigan UP has 500 wolves, that could be 10,000 deer killed a year. That could be 2x the hunter kill numbers.
i agree with OWD people who have to get the antifreeze idea from this site or any site are the morons who voted obamma
Yep 775, have the same problem here in Minnesota. They actually had the wolves de-listed as endangered in May, but a court challenge has revoked that.
http://news.dnr.state.mn.us/index.php/20...ral-protection/As for me I can no longer hunt my bigger running pointer in the grouse woods... too risky. And I'm nervous with the closer dog as well. Really detracts from the hunt, and so I only made one grouse trip this year. And now when you are on the deer stand and the doe runs by it's just as likely a pack of wolves chasing as a love-sick buck.
Bryan
Too many wolves here in NW Montana.
Last cat season a couple of dogs were killed by wolves. THis season is still going, I haven't heard of any killed dogs, yet.
I have seen many wolf tracks in the woods while hunting grouse.
The elk hunters complain that besides seeing less elk, the bulls don't bugle back anymore.
And that is something that hunters may have to deal with. Another predator on the map. What bothers me is that the people who promoted the reintroduction of the wolves want too many of them without any scientific basis. I believe that most if not all biologists involved in the project agreed that there are three times more wolves than we are supposed to have in the Montana/Idaho/Wyoming area.
Many people around have taken the problem in their hand since they feel that the info the government has about the number of wolves around is underestimated.
I am afraid that this is not going to be a very beneficial situation because if there is info about a "dwindling" wolf population, the Feds will take over the management again.
A wolf is just a coyote on steroids- Kill "em all- poison, 30-30, traps--and to hell with the PETA numbnutz!!
One last posting, Last night I talked with a friend who owns a hunting camp in central UP of Michigan. Seven hunters up for the opening week. Three left after a couple days, tally after the week: deer seen 2, wolves seen 12. Three wolves were seen 30 ft. off the cabin porch when a member stepped out for a smoke.
Two wolf stories: The first happened a few years ago while driving to the big Ohio gun show; wife Nancy and I were south of Xenia and north of Wilmington when a gray wolf ran across the road about 100 yards ahead and loped into the bean field. It was no coyote.
Bill Murphy may remember Kody, our kid's half-wolf when they were in Leesburg VA. Kody was, for all intents and purposes, a wolf to look at, and a good pet. A really big coyote weighs 40-45 pounds; an average young wolf weighs 72 pounds and stands 3 inches higher at point of shoulders than my then 80 pound Lab Clipper. Kody stood 3-inches above my Lab and weighted 80 pounds also. I am a soybean farmer and watched that wolf lope through the almost mature beans that almost reached his shoulder. A coyote would have been under the canopy...
The following summer at the Leader Lake WI Cottage Owners Assn. annual meeting in Minong WI (about 40 miles due south of Duluth MN), we had a DNR guy make an after dinner presentation, this time about wolves. He said there was--and still is--a "Minong Pack" of about 16, about 8 miles west of our cottage; I had seen one once. The DNR guy explained how they catch and then track them with electronic collars, and said one problem was that the young males sooner or later get kicked out of the pack by the alpha male, and they are programed genetically to try to muscle themselves into another pack. But there being no other packs close by, they become "lone wolves," sort of like the guy who didn't have a nickle to get of the MTA.
Punch line: The DNR guy said one of their collared lone wolves had been hit by a truck near Madison IN, and another collared young male hit by a car near Wilmington OH--two weeks after I saw a wolf thereabouts...small world!
Another wolf story is wife Nancy's from this summer in Alaska. We were in a remote area north of Fairbanks, on the Chena Springs Road. I was off in the wilderness chasing grayling with my 3-weight, and she came looking for me with ParkerDog, our 72 pound yellow Lab. Usually ParkerDog would be pissing on every bush and ranging out 30 yards sniffing everything, but he held close to Nancy, following at heel; what's up?
Nancy came around a bend in the wide trail and there stood a mature wolf 10 yards away. The wolf simply turned and walked away, not rushed, but quickly disappeared in the bush. ParkerDog just stood there. I wonder what he was thinking...
And I wonder how many bloggers with second- and third-person hearsay and AP-news stories to reiterate have ever actually seen a wolf in the wild? Nancy has two to her credit. Anyone else?
On our way back from Alaska we visited friends in Montana. Seems like everyone there had bought a wolf permit, but the newly-enacted special season was in in doubt because of the usual 11th hour litigation. Seems like judges run the country nowadays. I left before the issue was resolved, one way or the other. But I did get a copy of the regs, and suffice it to say that reducing a wolf to possession in Montana, legally, would probably require a lawyer's and/or Talmudic scholar's advice. Things ain't what they used to was. EDM
i actualy have 5 not includeing 3 diffrent sightings this year while hunting them with my muzzleloader
My father was a salmon and steelhead biologist for the state of Idaho .
In the 70’s we lived up in the Stanly area I can remember hearing wolves at night .
In 1984 a couple friends and I decided we would hunt the mirror lake area . We ended up getting after a real nice herd of elk with a very good herd bull . By the time we realized just how far back we were , it was getting dark .
There were 3 of us and we all had head lamps . About 2 miles from our pickup right in the trail in front of us stood a wolf .
I got to see it just as it dived off the trail .
Russell the friend that was in the lead , says ; was that what I think it was .
What had been a nice night of hiking back now turned into one of watching off the trail . In total we say maybe 7 that night and they followed us all the way back to the pickup .
A few years later Russell and I were up in the hells canyon area . Specifically Cuddy mountain. It was in early archery season , We had worked our way down toward grizzly basin and was just starting to drop off into rush creek falls . We had stopped on an out cropping and was taking a break . When across the canyon on a deer tral walked out 2 adult wolves and 3 pups . We watched them the better part of 30 minutes as they made their way up rush creek for buck park and Inkwell
Year before last I saw another big male not far above Weiser
We were out turkey hunting . I had sat down to glass the opposite side of the draw and ridge line .
When I first say the wolf I remember thinking ; , now who would have their German Sheppard running around way up here ???
. He was still well away from where we were at . As he worked his way along the ridge and more up to equal across from me , I dawned on me that it was a wolf .
In fact it eventualy came within about 50 yards of where I was sitting . Close enough I could make out a tracking collar .
Later during a IF&g meeting , they had a layout of where they were tracking wolves .
I noticed that there wasnt a line showing a wolf in that area . So I stood up and said HA!!!!.
I know for a fact there are wolves in this unit right here and this one right here ,pointing at the map.
The management director then stated yes there was and in fact they had a collared wolf that had went through that area and even crossed the snake river . It had taken up residence in the eagle caps out of Baker OR and That the map they were showing was not up to date .
There is no mistaking a wolf from a coyote none . Same goes for their call . No compression to a coyote at all .
Again as I said I like to see them now and then . But I sure don’t want them in the numbers we are getting them at now .
I also would not shoot one without a season . Now if it was looking like it intended in molesting one of my dogs while grouse hunting , that’s another story .
Spring 2008 I was running one of my dogs at a NAVHDA test event near Milaca, MN. 6 or 8 of us were standing around waiting for our turn when a gal pointed and said "whose dog is that?". We all looked a couple hundred yards to the other end of the field adjacent to the bird field... a large animal was crossing from the timber on one side to the other. It was significantly larger (by at least 2 times) than any of the dogs we were running in the same cover. When it was out of sight we all looked at each other and said "wolf!". Milaca is in the central part of the state, well south of the "expected" wolf range.
A few years back my son and I were walking out a logging road past sundown after a successful grouse hunt in northern MN. A wolf howled close behind us... I will never forget that sound and the sensation of the hair standing up on the back of my neck. We walked out the last half mile looking back more than forward. It was a good experience, but then we weren't running any dogs at the time.
No other actual sightings for me, but several amongst friends and family, mainly deer streaking by the stand with wolf or wolves not far behind. It's amazing to come across a fresh kill site... ground cover totally trampled in a 10 yard diameter, stripped bare bones and deer hair everywhere, every other bit gone. If the wolves are howling when you are sitting around the fire at night in deer camp chances of seeing a deer the next day are slim.
Bryan
Talking about wolves,
I just heard them howling against the mountain behind the house, tonight. Four or five voices...
My sister spotted two today in the backyard around 11 AM. They were coming down a hill about 100 yards behind the house when my lab and griff noticed them. They started barking towards them in a fierce race. The wolves stopped in their tracks and turned around slowly and nonchalantly clearing the area. My 10 year old lab kept barking on their tracks, the 1 year old griff went into the kennel as soon as she smelled their stink.
They say wolves will not attack living people, but I know I will carry a gun of some sorts any time I get in the woods...
Think about this ? My brother today talked to a friend that has a brother living in Calumet,in the Keewenaw Peninsula in the UP of Michigan. This guy placed a trail camera on a wolf den and has recorded 41 fawns brought back to the den to feed the pups. Just reporting.
Next the wolves will be getting CWD.
Wolves do attack humans and it is becoming more common.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...ved=0CCwQ1QIoAQ
There seems to be a reason why our ancestors did a lot of things but alas a lot of these things are no longer adheared to. I.E. the CONSTITUTION. I would think that the eradication of wolves had a reason and during the time they sought to do it the population was far less... Now the tree huggers and do-gooders want to bring them back. When they run out of wild things to hunt, they will take livestock and God forbid people. I live in Iowa where the deer are very plentiful, we have few predators, but now with the rumor mill flying about our DNR releasing mountain lions, we seem to have some, similar scenario. There have been several killed and the media spins it as "released exotic pets" I know if I see one and have a gun well you know the rest.
There is no mistaking a wolf from a coyote none . Same goes for their call . No compression to a coyote at all.
You are right about the call. We have a pack of coyotes here on our IL/WI-state-line farm and they whoop it up considerably. On occasion we have called them in while soaking in our hot tub. The trick is to make a wine glass howl by rubbing a wet finger around the rim. They sometimes answer back with a wolf-like howl that can momentarily send shivers, even in the 104 degree water...but they can't hold a note, and the howl disintegrates into a bunch of yipping and yapping. Too bad. What we need here is one Minong-pack lone wolf to give us some decent night-time serenades and, incidentally, get rid of the pheasant-eatin' coyotes.
As an aside, methinks that the coyotes cannot handle turkeys in numbers. On the way to the bank the other day our resident herd of turkeys was in their usual corn field pecking through the snow. I stopped and counted at least 110, any error being an under-count given that two birds close together at 200- to 300-yards may have been mistaken as one. It could be that the turkeys have driven our pheasants away.
Investigation continues. EDM
It could be that the turkeys have driven our pheasants away. Investigation continues. EDM
Ed, we wonder the same thing about turkeys and our collapsed quail population here in Georgia. Baby quail look just like fuzzy little bugs; a perfect beak-full for the omnivorous big bird...Geo
Good thread topic. You want to see what you're in for on proposing predator control, get onto some Alaskan websites and track our press and such up here. Despite control being proven to work, the green crowd spend a LOT of money on press stating otherwise. As long as coyotes and wolves are allowed to grow in population, prey species populations will continue to decline, period. You either have to take matters into your own hands despite what F&Feathers says or get used to declining deer, moose, etc populations. It's that simple. There is an excellent article in a recent Outdoor life on coyotes depleting fawn deer populations during the birthing season. Research showed that 25% of the meat in a coyotes stomach during that period is fawn. That's a lot. Coyote hunting has to become a very popular pastime regardless of the rules...
Geno from St. Petersburg: I'm going to see your beautiful city and the Urals someday.... not sure when. Have worked in Mongolia and Kamchatka; your area is next...
I think you're right about the turkeys Ed and sorry I missed you this summer. I know they eat mice and such; a fuzzy little bird would like a nice meal to a turkey.
This year in Idaho, The fish and game department sold over 26,000 wolf tags. As of last Monday Idaho hunters had killed 132 wolves. There is discussion of extending the season in some area's of the state where quota's have not been met.
The gentlemen in this story will go on trial next month in North Idaho. The outcome should be interesting.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34587362/ns/local_news-spokane_wa/David
Mr. Dunn at Grand Junction Tn. is convinced the turkeys got them....it couldn't be true because the quail were gone before there were very many turkeys.
I think it's a combination of things topped off with farming chemicals...a guy I was talking to the other day thinks it was caused by arial spraying.
One thing I do know is Ft.Campbell Military base has lots of wild turkeys and lots of wild quail.
With a little scientific investigation at the base an answer might be found.
I think it's a combination of things topped off with farming chemicals...
That is what I think too.
Compression to a 'yote eh? last year's gun deer season (Nov. 2008) second week-end I hunted a private farm in Mecosta Co. - 260 acres and bordering a neighbor's sheep ranch- the farmer had been hearing 'yotes howl at night- So I took a elevated (about 60 feet) tree stand in a tree line of oaks bordering the swamp- had the old M-70 SG in 30-Gov't-06- Leupold 3x9 VX-111 set at 5 power- stoked with my No. 1 venison nailin' load- Remmie 180 Grain Core-Lokts- nailed two of those sheep eatin' roadrunner chasin' midget wolves- and they were, I am sure, at that range when I squeezed off their coup de gras- both "Compressed" and "Impressed"- first one did a summersault (OK- it was Nov- fallsault) in the air- blood spraying the snow as his lungs went into the '06 cuisinart- and like sharks or rats coming to a familial kill for chowcall- about one hour later another 'yote came along, sniffed the blood trail of his now dearly departed bro'- and decided to come closer for a "checky-checky"- BIG Mistake- I gave him, just for funzies, a "Texas heart shot" right up da fundamental, as the Limies like to say- as he was sniffing out his fallen comrade- tail curled up high- the impact of that 180 grainer at 2800 fps. shoved him forward on the crusted snow quite a few feet, later exam of both carcases showed the bullet exited the second critter at his throat- maybe not "compression" but sure is "penetration"-- no wonder Remmie calls that round "The deadliest mushroom in the woods"- Yup- sure is--nost generally though, I like the older Sako in .243Win with 55 grain Hornady moly-coat tipped rounds- at 3790 fps. muzzle velocity- when you nail a woodchuck or fox or 'yote with one of those loads- "Mama Mia"!! Kill "em all, let Ma Nature sift "em out afterwards"!! RWTF
Jo- as a 'Nam Vet- I am surprised- you failed to mention that Ft. Campbell, KY also has a sizeable amount of Eagles- if you listen carefully with your ear to the ground (even from Clarksville) you can sometimes even hear one screamin'"" RWTF
I'm not a "Nam vet-...nor have I saw any eagles up there.
I don't think they have enough water for eagles.
It could be that the turkeys have driven our pheasants away. Investigation continues. EDM
Ed, we wonder the same thing about turkeys and our collapsed quail population here in Georgia. Baby quail look just like fuzzy little bugs; a perfect beak-full for the omnivorous big bird...Geo
I didn't mean that the turkeys ate the pheasants. It's just that when the big birds move in and occupy the limited cover in numbers, the smaller birds likely feel more comfortable by moving somewhere else.
Another observation is that just recently after our latest big snow storm, the pheasants we do have congregated on and near our plowed road, for the gravel I presumed, but I also observed them pecking weed seeds from the weeds standing above the deep snow cover, which makes sense; they gotta eat, and all the corn scattered under the iced-over snow cover isn't accessible. And in fact the pheasants can thrive absent corn, wheat, beans, and other row crop residues simply by ingesting the ever-present non-economic seeds...and herein lies my thesis for our declining pheasant populations: Things ain't what they used to was.
When I was a kid and pheasants were plenty, corn was on 42-inch rows and average 60-bushel yields, with much of it standing through the snow cover and harvested by a corn picker for storage and drying in corn cribs. Along came the combined picker and sheller ("combine") and narrower rows, dropping to 38-inch, then 30-inch, and we are now on 15-inch rows with yields exceeding 200 bushels, but the changing practices leave little for the wild bird populations...and there is more to the story...
Until about 15 years ago Round-Up Ready beans didn't exist, and the weeds had a chance. Round-Up isn't killing the pheasants directly, as it is so benign that the average housewife can buy it in the hardware or grocery store to tune up her garden. Every licensed herbicide has a "L/D-50" number, the higher the better, as the number means the Dose-quantity by body weight necessary to be a Lethal for 50% of the tested population. Round-Up has a sky-high L/D-50 number, even higher than aspirin, and is widely used and considered
the safest of herbicides...and here's the catch:
The stuff is so deadly to tough weeds that it kills everything but genetically altered soybeans and corn. Round-Up has preformed miracles in cleaning up the tillable acreages, and by cleaning up the beans there is a clean-up carry-over to rotated corn. My fields are clean as the proverbial hound's tooth and my pheasants need to gravitate to the scant cover near my roads to get a bite to eat when there is snow cover. The turkeys are better able to get to the snow-covered crop residue and are commonly seen in the corn stalks, thus marginalizing the pheasants to the
diminished interior and exterior fence rows, for which reduction of cover and food source we farmers are culpable.
Our equipment is gigantic by historic standards; no more 40 acres and a mule and 42-inch rows; no more 35 HP tractors and corn pickers doing 80 acres on 38-inch rows...fact is that the old military-like pheasant hunt with an armed formation walking standing corn and blockers stationed at the end of the field went the way of the passenger pigeon when farmers adopted 30-inch rows...and now with 15-inch rows and Round-Up Ready beans, plus the elimination of interior fence lines to open up fields for the large equipment, and now BT corn (diminished worm larva) and, finally, Round-Up Ready corn: IMHO these taken together are the root but invisible causes of declining pheasant populations, just like the destruction of habitat triggered the decline and ultimate extinction of the passenger pigeon.
And there's not much we can do about it, unless the Obama administration decides to nationalize agriculture along with everything else, limit farming operations to 40 acres, and guarantee a mule in every shed.... Investigation continues. EDM
