I wasn't aware that there was a smaller frame made for the Parker Repro's than the 00 frame for the 28 ga.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=163433559

Nick Sisley wrote an article for Shotgun Sports Magazine several years ago about Parker Reproductions, Mr. Sisley interviewed Jack Skeuse to gather information for the story. Here's a link to this article which is posted on the PGCA album pages, the article is six pages long and contains production figures of the various Parker Repro offerings including the 0000-frame guns, when you're done reading the first page scroll down and click on "Next Picture" to continue reading the article.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=99&pictureid=1032

You reminded me that I have a copy of that issue down in the gun safe with the Repro's. I just pulled it out,"several years" must have gone by fast for both of us. My copy is the February 1996 issue. Will be good reading again this evening!

Does anyone know if the 28/410 combos were all on a 0000 frame rather than the 00 frame that we are used to seeing?

Fred, I could be wrong, but I believe they stamped all the .410 bbls 0000 in anticipation of coming out with a dedicated .410 0000 frame (which they never did), but they were fitted to 28 ga 00 frames. At any rate, there weren't any 0000 framed 28 ga guns, so since the Galazan gun has both sets of bbls, it has to be on a 00 frame. The frame size was only stamped on the barrel lump, not on the frame, so they probably only looked at the .410 bbls. The 28 ga bbls will certainly be stamped 00. Still, $13,000 seems to be not a bad price, even for them, as rare as .410/28 ga sets are (DT too!).
Joe

Joe,
I am holding my copy of Shotgun Sports and looking at the article written by Nick Sisley, and I quote,

" The year was 1989. As I understand, the facility was sold. Real estate was going wild in Japan at the time. I believe the gunmaking facility was razed to construct a new building. As for the 100 partially made .410's on the 4/0 frame, Jack Skeuse continues to build them as time and experienced gunsmiths permit."

I have missed/been outbid on a couple 28/410's in auctions. Have never held one.(.410) I have a few 28's and find it hard to believe that a still smaller frame was actually made. Would love to see it.

My friend Tony makes a mistake occasionally. Let see how long it takes for someone to take advantage.

Yes, a smaller frame than the 00 was made by Mr. Skeuse. The 0000 frame was a little wonder gun with breech balls that barely extended beyond the frame width. They seemed to be recessed into the frame sides. It was not like the 000 frame that Parker Brothers used for the .410. From this observation, the 0000 frame may actually be wider than the 000 Parker Brothers frame. I have measured the firing pin spacing on the 0000 frame to compare with other frames, but have not compared the other 0000 dimensions with the 000 or the 00 frame. Some day we will get them all together, but, so far, we haven't done it.

Yep, the article says they made 33 .410s on 0000 frames. Has anyone ever seen one, or heard of anyone owning one? Bill, you saw one? At any rate, Galazan's new listing is surely on a 00 frame.
Joe

A few years ago Herschel Chaddick listed a Parker Repro .410 on a 4/0-frame for sale with a very healthy asking price, it didn't take long before it disappeared from his listings.

I remember that one bamboozler. It was a very nice one with stunning wood. I believe it was listed at $25K or so. And yes, it wasn't there for long.

Some time before the Chaddick BHE 0000 .410 was offered, Mike Weatherby advertised one for $16,500 in 1993 and apparently sold it. Have I ever seen one? A prototype was shown by Northeast Area Representative, the late Ray Stone, at a local gathering on August 31, 1988. A couple of us offered to buy the prototype, but Ray would not let it go. A friend and I placed an order for a consecutive numbered near matching pair, paid our deposits which were returned a couple of years later. Another person at the showing actually did receive his gun. Kevin McCormack and I cooperated on "The .410 Bore Parker" display at the Baltimore Show a few years ago where this gun and several other wonderful .410 Parkers were displayed. This was the annual Parker display that Kevin initiated many years ago. Among Parkers displayed were a production BHE 0000 frame, a 0000 frame gun sculpted and custom engraved by Geoffrey Gournet, a multi barrel DHE Repro set with .410 barrels, a VHE .410 Skeet with rare capped pistol grip in Abercrombie and Fitch trunk case and A&F accessories, a screaming GHE .410 field configured gun, and maybe others I can't recall. It was a display to remember.

I would like to bring this thread up for further discussion if anyone would like to contribute.

Do you say 4-ought, quad-ought, zero zero zero zero, or double snake eyes?

I have been studying the repro's for several years now...best I can come up with is.. way less guns actualy did get finished in any BHE grades and any sets with 410 barrels. I beleive the listed numbers for the 410-s was pre-flud and some or several 410 barrels sets were lost. Only 30 sets of 410 barrels were to have been completed when the factory closed. Of them 30 some were lost to the flud. I know of 9 DHE guns by S.N. I think 5 to 10 A-1 exist and only a couple BH grades. As for the 0000 frame prototype, the one Chadicks sold was listed as the only one made!....still a 2nd 0000 gun may exist? If I was a betting man I would say 15-20 guns or less total exist in 410 gauge! Of the ones that I know of only 4 DH grades have two triggers all the rest have been single. Two of those four are for sale as I write this. I will continue to keep track of any 410 guns that come up for sale by S.N. and or discription (if posible). I own two DH grade DT-PG 28/410 sets at this time, one has 2 splinters and the 3 barrel set has two BTF. My two barrel set is as new with little to no use showing and my 3 barrel set Im shooting...(-: it shows loss of color case and some light scuffs. Its 6lbs-4oz. I can't beleve how many sporting clays the 410 can break...would not have ever guesed! thanks all Kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-:

Some of your figures may be correct or close, but there are more than two BHE 0000 frame .410s because I have seen more than two and popular information shows 33 with 100 more unfinished. The unfinished guns are either now finished, in progress, or still in the hands of the Skeuse family, according to what I have heard. The Sisley article cites information from the Skeuse family and is probably the best information we have. Why are you quoting Chaddick when you know he is wrong? What is your logic in saying that "I have only seen one, so there is only one, except that there may be one more."? There is no evidence that the Chaddick gun was a prototype and there is no evidence that there are any fewer BHE 0000 .410s than Sisley cites.

Greg, "Four Oh" is popular.

I have talked with Skues...there are no more guns or parts to make anything.... make it sound like there is a underground factory pumping out repro's from stollen parts...I beleive there are less guns than some may think. Maybe a couple more that escaped we dont know about?? but a possible 30 410 sets would be real close guess, probably some of them were lost in the flud. I based my BHE statement on claimed letters of fact from Skues family to the sellers of guns that have been advertized in recent days. I did not see the letters or any real proof. But this is all we have to go on at this point in time. Anyone can make a letter or claim anything. Fact is few ever come up for sale in any B grade. I do not think the stated 100 B grades in each gauge ever were made. Few 28 gauge B grades were made acording to letters from Skues of a seller??,.. statements like one of one ect.? ....No one knows the true facts at this time!!!I don't, we only can speculate and gather known facts. I wonder if ATF would open the records that all gun mnf. have to keep. They would have been forwarded to ATF after Parker Reproductions stoped selling and ended operations. Thats how they trace guns if need be. Example...if a Parker repro was used in a crime they get the S.N. from the gun and call the trace center, then the dealer who recieved it, then the buyer ..on and on ect. This bound book would show all the guns P.R. made and ware they shiped to by S.N. and gauge. As a gun dealer I keep a bound book, all guns that we get are loged in from wholesaler or seller then out to the buyer??? We keep these books till we end buisness then they must be sent to the trace center for future needs. Maybe they have these books from P.R., Who do we know that could get this info from the tracing center in virginia??? Thanks all Kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-:

Sir, if the Skeuse family surrendered their records to ATF, we will never see them. We don't know whether their manufacturer's license is still active and I don't expect them to tell you about that either. "There are no more 0000 frame .410s left." sounds like a stock answer. I believe what you call the "trace center" is in West Virginia. Since you live right across the state line, why not run on over and knock on the door? I've been there and it is a friendly little place.

Here is additional info to considder....A letter of proof..HMMMM See this new listing on gun broker started on 5-8-10 auction no.= 168492700 BHE 410/28, 00 frame with 0000 barrels. Listed as the only one in the world! One of only 7 BHE-s made??? This is the only BHE I have ever come across in the past 5 years of study. Could it be true??? Chaddicks BHE was to have been a prototype with a true 0000 frame and also listed as one of one??? Still studying this...any additional info will be most usefull. thanks Kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-:

I would much rather have a four oh frame .410 than this gunbroker gun. I have a 28 gauge double oh frame DHE Repro, don't need another. The gunbroker gun is a really nice gun, but not for $32,000.

Bill: Other than .410-inch bore size (that few people wanted when four-tens were in current production), what exactly do you get in a 0000-marked-barrel Repro-Parker-gun that adds any value?

You mention measuring: If a No. 1 frame is 1/16 wider at the pins than a zero frame, is a four-zero-frame 4/16-inch narrower between the pins than a standard No. 1 frame? Or do the four zeros mean something different, like the No. 1/2 frame that is actually a No. 1 frame on the inside (between the pins), but slightly narrower and slimmed-down on the outside? EDM

I have the 0000 frame pin separation dimensions in my notes somewhere, but don't have them handy. No, the separation is not in progression with the other frame sizes. If I remember correctly, it may be the same separation as the 000 frame. By the way, a set of 16 gauge #1 frame Parker barrels fits nicely on a 1/2 frame gun. I happen to own a gun set up that way. You have to have a zero or 1/2 frame forend to make it work. Will we see you at the Northeast Shoot in June?

Bill: I learned about barrel sizes the hard--embarassing--way. I was at HC's in Terrell TX in '94, getting educated. I had a half-dozen Parkers apart, sorted by barrels, fore-ends, and the rest, comparing for nuances. When it came time to reassemble them I slipped a 20-bore barrel set onto a 12-bore frame, and couldn't get them apart. With my tail between my legs I told Herschel and he laughed; said "It happened all the time." I doubted it, but he took the mismatched barrels off the frame, much to my relief.

I guess most bbl sets are interchangeable except for exterior fit. This makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint. As to the 0000 frame from the 1980s, I recall it was break-thru news in the early to mid '90s when someone (Price & Mullins?) discovered (or rediscovered) the meaning of the numbers on the barrel lump and wrote about it. This makes me wonder if the 0000 Repro stamping was a private joke.

I don't know about my schedule. We were South in the Road Trek from the Vegas show in January till tax time...Illinois to Vegas to California to Florida (boat sold!) and north via John Davis in Ga to Eastern Shore, kids in Nokesville VA, and Illinois...9,800 miles @ 19.6 mpg. Somebody's gotta do it. We skipped Sanford because Middlebrook and Carmichael (who we visited in FL) said the venue prohibited overnight R/Vs (the usual "insurance" BS). C'est la vie! As to the Northeast...maybe, but I gotta know more. Investigation continues. EDM

I've learned the hard way about trying the fit of one set of barrels to a mismatched frame twice and I swear to God I'll never do it again without first removing the cocking hook...

Ed, RVs are welcome at the Northeast Shoot. Somehow, Daryl's machine has made it into the site.

Frame size....If all the 410 barrels sets are oooo and they are mostly fitted to OO frame 28ga. frames then fire pin spacing must be the same...? We must get that OOOO frame protatype in hand and mesure all dementions and weight to compair with a OO frame. Also... I now have a copy of the letter stating one BHE 410/28 set was made.... and was the only one made by Parker reproductions, signed by Jack Skues. Thanks all Kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-: