Gentlemen,

This gun is offered for sale on a forum I frequent.It is said that it's a James Purdey,serial number:12581.Unfortunately that's all the information we have.








I have never seen a Purdey with such engraving,not that I have seen too many.I appreciate your inputs.Thanks in advance.I wrote to Purdey but did not get any reply.

Best-
Vikram

It's going to boil down to a few things. What's the asking price? Do you get an inspection period with the ability to return if it's not right? can you legally own this gun considering where you reside?
Jim

Need better photos but everything I see screams "fake".

No drop points?

I have seen and appraised fake Purdey shotguns. I have no idea why you received no reply from the company.

You're taking the piss, aren't you?

It just doesn't look "right"; closer photos - engraving, barrel flats etc - would help
RG

I tryed to open up the pics for a better look, but they are
scrambled so you cannot get a better view. The lettering on the rib looks as if it is stamped. I am calling a fake....

There are two things about this Purdey which just don't look right.

Firstly is the pin on the metal attached to the fore-end. Purdeys do not have this pin though Boss and Holland and Holland do.

Secondly, one of the pins on the sidelock is not in its correct position.

It would be interesting to look at the proof marks.

It seems to be a good quality gun - perhaps no Purdey - but a nice looking gun all the same; perhaps a Spanish gun which is "Purdey style" somehow (engraving? double underbolts? third bite?), but someone accidentally/ignorantly/on purpose forgot the "style" caveat?
RG

I think that we need better pictures to clear if it is a "Fake" but there are one or two things that tell that there is a big chance that it is a fake,lock pins position, no drop points. You don't mention the asking price and we not have proof mark pictures.It is also not a very early purdey (pin position) like there is now one on offer in the main Holt's sale lot Nr 1430, this is a very early and the pins are not in the same position as the Purdey's ne all know.
Marc.

If that gun is a Purdey then it has likely been restocked. There are no tear drops at the back end of the lock plates. The style of the stock looks more like a Scott gun. The pin in the forend, as mentioned by others, should not be there.

As shown, it does not look as if it is a Purdey gun.

The pin in the forend iron was present in earlier Purdey guns. Pin placement on the sideplates of this gun is indicative of a Beesley pattern lock. I would not rule this out as genuine based on these photos alone.

I'm inclined to think the action is genuine, the engraving notwithstanding. As for the barrels and wood, I'll not vouch. Would have to see them, but I have my doubts.

Curl

Whats the problem to send messg to Purdey?
Sign on top rib doesn't look write to me, it has to be hand engraved, but its not.

I suspect it is a sleeved gun which has been poorly restocked. The barrels with that top rib just looks poor. You can get anything stamped or engraved on a rib. Unless this is a old low grade gun that was later upgraded by a owner to try to look like a better grade gun I suspect a fake. Even then it is still a fake upgrade. The engraving is not top level which you would expect on a Purdey but that may just be due to wear, age or poor maintenance. Bad example of a good name at best. Unless it is for sale at a bargain price I would keep looking.

Vikram:
In my opinion, you may have a "Purdey." But the chances of it being a product of James Purdey & Sons of London, England, are slim indeed.

I've examined the photos. And NONE of the typical Purdey fit, style and workmanship is present. In addition, the inscription on the top rib is so clumsily done and inappropriately composed as to be almost comedic. All other factors follow suit.

God knows where this thing was made. But in my personal view, it wasn't London.

Best, Kensal

FAKE, enlarge the stamped wording on the top of the barrels.
Probably a nice old gun that has been faked to a Purdey by some moron in India.

When I enlarged the side view of the receiver area, I realized how bad a gun this really is. I earlier mentioned a fake Purdey I had appraised some years ago. It was so well made and fitted, I was seriously considering making an offer for it. The rib message and the pin placement were the only bad parts of the entire gun. The rest was a masterpiece of Spanish gunmaking.

Its a typical 125 year old Purdey.Almost certainly made as a non ejecter and later converted, seen numerous guns like this with different ejector types fitted. The stock is worn hence lack of points ,the lock pins are loose so not lined up . Its an old gun that has seen better days ,may even have been rebarreld certainly looks like they have been re-engraved, but hard to tell from the picture.If you have any doubt then get it to some one who knows what they are talking about.

After reading gunman's reply, I'm glad I didn't make any comments about the originality of this gun. I don't doubt what he says, but I still stick to my opinion that it's a bad gun, although probably a Purdey.

How good is the collective memory?
I think that gun visited here previously. As I recall, it was an old gun, and had been used a great deal. The pin placement was discussed exhaustively. It had been restocked, during a time period when best work was not quite.
I sort of remember it because it surfaced near the time of the Roy Roger's Purdey.
Anything there ring a bell?

I remember that I had no doubt that the Roy Rogers Purdey was a righteous gun. MM thought so too and bought it. It didn't turn out too bad.

As old as it can be, fit of the locks is horrid. I do not see how age could do that.

As far as the stamping on the barrels, well...

I'd say fake, but what do I know.

JC

Gentlemen, Thank you for your help.Pics of proof marks are not going to come.I am not in the market to buy it,but its origins/authenticity mystify me.There is a crane engraved on the sideplate if you look closely. Leave aside the barrels and stock, could the action alone be a Purdey one,one that of 1880's? Thank you all once again for your replies.

Best-
Vikram

I'll slide out on to the ice for you Vikram.
You can call Purdey's. You have the serial number.
If you take it apart, there are enough places that a "true" Purdey is marked that you could find your answer.

To quote Crossed Chisle's, "It's like King Alfred's axe, it's had 3 heads, and 2 handles replaced, but it's still King Alfred's axe." Apologies to Mr. Trevallion.

You can do anything you want to a shotgun if you have time, money, and absent those two, talent.

Had another look at the stock ,it could well have been a cheap restock or done by someone who diosent know how to do it properly.

I have 104 years old true Purdey. What marks do you expect to find to determ its true Purdey or not?
Full set of London proof marks, both barrel tubes have their own Whitworth' numbers besides Purdey s/number.
There two letters located on action under stock wood. I don't remember letters now, but Purdey's people told me its actioner maker letters. S/number on forend. Thats it. No more letters or numbers anywhere on the gun.

I have to say some parts of "vikram" Purdey very looks like true Purdey. For instance top lever and safety button, exact copies in details of my Purdey top lever and button. Not sure about barrels replacement, but top rib been redone and thats for sure.

I second gunman. There is no question about this gun it is a Purdey. It has been through the mill for 125 years, it should be retired like an old dog. Every thing about this gun is typical Purdey. Beautiful lines that no other maker can reproduce like top lever,safe button,triggers,trigger bow, balls,lock plates, top strap and so on. This has been a beautiful gun.

Geno- I meant that if the gun were a fraud, there would be enough observable discrepencies to make the determination. The nature of physical fraud brings with it certain inconsistencies and indulgences.
I don't have the answer to, "How many original parts must a well used BV1 shotgun contain to continue membership?"
That becomes a "Buy the gun, not the name" decision.

Don't do it Vik! You know better brother...

No,Nick.I am not going to buy it.My interest in it is purely academic.Thanks for the caution,bro.

Best-
Vikram