I have a 12 ga LC Smith, bought it a couple yrs. ago, was leaving a gun show and I needed to be someplace. In other words did not look over this gun as well as I should have{pretty wood caught my eye] gun does not match up on serial numbers, barrel and forend is 325008 an receiver is 205632.
Tonight I shot trap and decided to use this gun. On first 25 hit 21, then the gun fell apart(forend and barrell came off when I opened gun) upon further inspection, the thin metal piece that covers the space between barrels on bottom was bent
and now longer flat, loose. I can email a picture og this to someone but don't know how to post the picture here, apparently don't know anymore about computers than doubles. Suggestions would be appreciated since I shoot this gun pretty well. If I could send the pictures to have posted here I would be happy to do so. Thanks, and sorry for the LONG post.

Murphy, if you'd like learn how to post a photo here click on this step by step guide. You'll find it's pretty easy and not involved. Looking forward to seeing the pictures.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=148935#Post148935

Hello
Sounds like you had a lower rib seperation, along with the forend hanger.

email pictures to

milowrey@sbcglobal.net

I will post for you.

Mine was an upper rib,

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post184406

Mike

Send it out for repair ASAP....Have everthing fitted properly. Anyone have sigestions for the right gunsmith? I had a fox with loose ribs fixed at Giocomos in New York...the old lafeaver facility. They did a great job and the gun shot point of aim! It cost me 600.00 included rust blue, barrels looked factory new agian.....thanks all....Kenny Graft SXS ohio...(-:

Nick Makinson can definitely put this gun right. See his ad in DGJ or call him at 519.471.5462. Nick has seen this before and can make the metal repairs correctly. He will also not introduce new metals that are not matched to the rest of the system. He is usually available to talk if you want to run the project by him on the phone.

Here are the pictures

Thanks, Skeetex for posting the pictures. After seeing the pictures and knowing the serial numbers don't match up barrell vs stock, how much money should I be willing to put into repairs?I don't want to repair if it would be cost prohibited and was also wondering if after repair should I be using the shells made for vintage guns or would modern shells be ok?

Vintage shells will be better for the gun in the long run but you could ask a gunsmith that question after the gun has been examined.

While the serial numbers aren't matching, the gun still has value. Do you shoot it well? Do you like it? Those may be the real determiners of how much effort you want to go through. None of these repairs is going to make the gun other than what it is to you.

Yes I like the gun, only gun I ever hit 25 straight with plus I like the looks, so I guess I should at least get a price on fixing it. Thanks

If the forarm lug is tight, I would clean the raised piece, clean the mating surface, and buy some low temperature solder. Put flux on both surfaces making sure you don't go beyond area or else solder will run there. Using a dowel of the same diameter as the rib, tap the rib back into place, it should lock against the forarm lug. Make sure everything is flush and solder. Doing this with the low temperature solder should not affect the bluing.
Brownell's sells the solder.

The forend hook is not made to support a beavertail forend's recoil. You might expect a similar loosening if you fix it and continue to shoot with the beavertail.

The forend hook is not made to support a beavertail forend's recoil. You might expect a similar loosening if you fix it and continue to shoot with the beavertail.

The LC Smith guns with and without beavertails use the same forend lug. The ones with a beavertail use the roller latch in addition to the J-spring latch, and use a reinforcing screw in the forend to attach it to the wood, but they all depend on the same forend lug for attachment to the barrels. This damage was probably caused by someone popping the barrels open instead of opening them properly. The type II hammer guns are particularly prone to this damage because they have nothing to stop the barrels except the lug.

Tom, I am looking at a mid 1920s Monogram with a beavertail. It does add the roller to the Baker Patent forend fastener, but also has a reinforcing behind the hook to the barrel flats, to help the hook accept the pounding of the beavertail. This added reinforcement was common with other makers using a beavertail, too.

Lost me, If I do anything it will be to send it to someone, I just don't know how much money should go into this gun. I paid $400. for it, should I spend how much to repair. The serial number on barrell and forend do match so I think they had to be together. The serial number on the receiver is what is different.

Murphy,

A pro shouldn't charge too much to resolder the rib into place. I'd think $100 would be about what most capable double smiths would charge to do it right. I'm curious about the larger hole in the rib ahead of the lug. It suggests that at some point it was tapped for something that attached to the rib but it seems it should also be covered by the forend so, probably not a swivel mount... Any how, since you asked, I wouldn't put too much more than you paid for the gun into it but you should get it back to where it is safe to shoot a few rounds of trap by getting that rib done correctly. Given the condition of the forend wood and the possiblility that the buttstock is a replacement (judging by photo), it's likely not worth much more than what you'll have in it post repair.

Best,
jmc

Your barrels and for-end iron date it to 1909. I believe that the beavertail wood was added to it later. The receiver's serial number dates it to post 1945, and could be from parts left over when Marlin bought them out in same year. If that is all that is stamped on the receiver's water table, but, I don't believe at that time they were making the Regular frame then. Is there a number stamp like 00 and then E on the receiver's water table? If so this would date it to 1906.

This has nothing to do with the rib, but I am curious about the serial number.

The above date quote is incorrect; your frame dates to 1908 and the serial number block denotes that this gun originally shipped with factory optional auto-ejectors. The barrels/foreiron serial numbers indicate 1909 prodcution and is from a serial number block indicating that these parts were originally on a gun shipped with manual extractors. As Smith gun ejector parts are all housed within the forearm and barrels, barrels with manual extractors of the same frame size/type can easily be fitted to what was formerly an ejector gun frame; while on the other hand, it takes a lot of work to convert a set of manual extractor barrels to function with auto ejectors.
We know that your frame is from 1908, as it is an "R" (Regular) sized gun frame; and "R" frames had been dropped from production by 1945. Other clear age/period indicators are the shape of the grip and checkering pattern. Why does your gun not have the original barrels? We will never know of course; they could have been damaged, but it is also very likely that your gun was originally a Grade O gun which would have had Damascus barrels that were replaced with steel tubes at some point.
As to the loose short rib, this could be the result of several causes. I suspect your barrels have been reblued at some point; if these barrels were improperly hot blued, the bluing salts used could have reacted with/dissolved some of the original rib solder and weakened the bond. The only way to know for sure is to have the barrels inspected by a qualified doublegun smith. Should that be the case, it is possible that all ribs should be relayed and then the barrels properly slow rust blued. Another possibility is that the replacement foreiron was not properly fitted to the frame and placed too much tension on the hanger lug; eventually breaking the rib loose during recoil. Again this must be determined by a gunsmith, and is a problem that can also be repaired.
As to the large hole in the short rib, this is not factory origial. I have seen small holes aftermarket drilled in this area to insure hot bluing salts were removed after a reblue; but in most cases a large hole in this area indicates that someone did a little creative gunsmithing and added a screw or bolt to secure the forearm after a broken "J" spring. In your case I don't see a corresponding hole in the iron itself, so can't say for sny certainty; but there is some sort of non-original screw attachment added to the front portion of the iron. Again, have it checked by a gunsmith.
As to repair, with the barrels in their present damaged state and the altered iron and aftermarket beavertail; you certainly don't have $400 worth of parts. Were it me at this point, I suppose I'd have the barrels repaired and the forend returned to the original splinter type (Smith beavertail options were not available on guns from the 1908/09 era); then I'd shoot and enjoy the gun. Properly repaired and maintained this old Smith is good for another 100 years; good luck.

topgun has it right. Take his advice.

Murphy: My L.C. 20 ga. did the same thing, I fixed it 4 years ago and it is still going for my grandson. If you will call me we can discuss what needs to be done and cost. I don't see why this repair should be very much and my turnaround for it is fairly quick right now depending on whether you want the barrels reblued or not. Mike at: 317-373-0599

Daryl, The name on the Hunter drawing for the forend lug is Loop, and the short rib between the barrel lug and the loop is called the Loop Stem. There are two or more designs for the stem, with a much heavier design being used on the Long Range or Wild Fowl versions. I have seen the same heavier type stem used on some other guns with a splinter type forend, usually on trap type guns. I am not sure what is gained by the use of the heavier type stem, as it is only soft soldered to the barrels and the loop. Also the loop is only soft soldered to the barrels, which is why it sometimes comes loose as in this case. The loop and forend iron are closely fitted as this is what controls the fit between the forend iron and the frame. Otherwise the pressure of the J spring will cause friction and wear between the frame and the iron.