I occassionally get emails from Aubrey / Meriden owners asking for more information. In many cases, these are heirloom guns that have been owned by a family member since they were ordered new from the Sears catalog.

Yesterday, I got the usual request. I try to give as much as we know about a particular gun. I often ask for photos if available, sometimes just more info about what they are seeing.

So this fine gentleman let me know that his grandfather was given 69307. Being a hammerless gun, this should have been made in 1905 or 1906. Here are 2 telling photos.



Notice the rib has the patent date of 1907. OK, so the list is off a bit...



Notice this is not an Aubrey but a Meriden. AJ did not leave until 1910! So at best this gun was made mid-1910....

I am sure we can come up with all sorts of stories.

In the end, a serial number list is only a best guess. Each gun is unique.

Pete

Sounds like another case of the auteur vs. the angel, Pete. Who's at the helm or has his name on the gun at a particular time is a tool for sorting out when these bins of predated frames became guns. Doesn't work so well with a big contractor like FN and the Superposed. Or would it, if the company personnel history was sifted thoroughly for temporal windows obscured by serialization of a major component?

jack

Do we know the barrels are original to the gun?

Mark,

Yes they are.

Pete

How was the forearm attached? The Deely & Edge style was introduced in 1910.

The Men that built these guns many years ago, did not have the benefit of the research and serial number lists that we have today, so they often time got things wrong.































Yes it is Sarcasm

Hi. I have just acquired a Meriden shotgun. My first one. I was wondering if by a description, someone could tell me what grade this Meriden is:

30" barrels, ICxM chokes, double trigger

Top of rib : MF'D BY THE MERIDEN FIREARMS CO.MERIDEN,CT.PAT'D JULY 9,1907

Serial : 74507

On the right side of action flat, under the right barrel : 37

On the left side of action flat, under the left barrel : T32

Stamped by the forend lug : T

Stamped by the front/ forward barrel lug : 2

There is a Setter dog on point in some grass/ rushes on the left lock plate.

There is a Pointer dog on point in some grass/ rushes on the right lockplate.

If someone could date this and tell me the grade, or where it fell in the Meriden line, I would appreciate it. I could post pictures if necessary, but I live out in the sticks, and I have old slow dialup. It takes forever.

thanks, redoftx.

Congrats on a nice American sidelock.

The serial number dates to about 1915-1916. It had 32" Twist barrels. It sounds like a model 37, which would have been model 34 early on. It sold for $18.85 in the Sears big book.

In 1917 they stopped production and moved to a smaller facility. They continued to sell from inventory through 1919 while doing repair work.

Pete

I would have to look up to find info on this but I certaimly don't think 1910 is the correct date for the D&E forend. It seems to me D&E have always been given credit for the origin of the lever forend latch & there are way too many pre 1900 guns in existence with this style latch for that date to be correct, or else D&E were total infringers of someone elses design & I don't believe that is the case.

I was misunderstood....what I was trying to say was that Meriden Fire Arms Co started using a Deely & Edge mechanism on their guns around 1910. So its another way to help determine when a Meriden gun was produced. Attached is a portion of the 1910 Sears catalog...

Model 37...


And a close up of a dog on one of my Model 37's...

My apoligies Joe. Yes I thought you were saying that Deeley & Edge didn't design their forend latch until 1910 & I knew that was way off. I can see now how you meant it, I just didn't read it that way.

Here is a top of the line Model 97, first year of production. The gentleman that owns it was kind enough to send his pictures. He resides in Sweden. The most unlikely owner I have heard from was located in Thailand.





I purchased John Mann's model 97 from him a few years ago.

Pete

This Model 97 is another example. The serial number puts it in the 1st year of production, 1905-1906. However, the patent date on the rib suggests it either was made out of sequence or it was sent back and given a new set of barrels. So many questions...

Pete

Yep Joe S, that's what my right lockplate looks like too. Thanks for the model i.d. PeteM, or anyone else familiar with the mechanics on the Meriden : Are the firing pins supposed to be free-floating, like those on an LC Smith? I took the locks off, and found out the there was a spring between the tapering of the firing pin, and the breech.

I hope I'm not hi-jacking this thread with a technical question.

thanks, redoftx.

Hello again Pete M. I think the frame is made erlier as the serie.nr.says but the whole gun is put together about 1908-10 or so.The patent of Fore-Stock Fastener for Firearms as this have is from 1908.
(I think there are same barrels on hammers as hammerless)Pat.date on rib is the safety.

Regards Lennart

PeteM, What's a top model AJ Aubrey worth?
I came across one that was heavily period engraved, fine Damascus barrels, but the entire gun was covered in a patination of fine rust. He wanted $700.00, which I felt was much too high.
I didn't want the work. And I knew little about them.

You may be correct. I have never tried to interchange the barrels.

Pete

A hammer M97 or a hammerless M58 with some case coloring and in excellent condition will usually go for $1,200 or more. If it a special grade (reported but I have never even seen pictures) or a 20ga (I only know of 2 to exist currently) and the price would double or triple. For the 1st gun made (currently owned by one of the board members here) with deep relief engraving I would guess at least $5,000.

Most of the top graded guns will never come to market. At least that is my impression from countless contacts with owners. So many have been passed down through the family, they never intend to sell.

Pete

I wish I could give you a straight answer. I am not savvy enough. I believe it is free floating, but will not swear to it.

Pete

Just because the patent for the forearm mechanism was granted in 1908 doesn't really have any bearing on when it started appearing on firearms. The patent for the forearm mechanism was actually filed by Aubrey in January of 1907.....so theoretically it was probably used at that point (and possible earlier), nearly a year and a half before the patent was actually granted.

FORE_STOCK_FASTENER_FOR_FIREARMS.pdf

Thank you for your help / Lennart

Pete, I realized something and then went back to the Sears catalogs to confirm. Sears didn't offer an Aubrey/Meriden hammer gun until the Spring of 1908 catalog.....in fact, the 1908 ad specifically mentions that it was the first time they produced a hammer gun. So I think that would explain low serial numbers in conjunction with the 1907 patent on the rib. Also, the ad seems to imply that the barrels are interchangable with the hammerless doubles.

Joe,

I have to get to my copies to be 100%, but I think you are correct.


Pete

You are correct. It appears in the 1908, then disappears in the 1909 catalog. They continue to sell an un-named hammer gun that they state is made under contract for them....

Pete

That is intresting,you have so many sourses in Amerika so you kan tell the whole story.(As you kan see in the ser.nr.list there is not so many hammers in the beginning).But from what i guess 1908-10 it start whith AJ Aubreys lockpatent.The frame are different( Meriden and Aubreyframes and Gogh was the engraver on both locks flying "turnips") but the barrels are the same don`t you think.( But AJ Aubrey put his name on some hammerlesslocks too)

Regards Lennart