It doesn't look good for FAMARS:

Is FAMARS out of business?

OWD

Call 1-855-326-2771. They can provide more information.

Pete

If true, where does that leave Beretta and their SO-9 and SO-10?

As a long time admirer of their guns I'm shocked... But I must add that I'm not really surprised.
With kind regards,
Jani

I, too, am not surprised. They made good guns on many days and not so good ones on other days.

so what is the scoop?

When I was at the Beretta Gallery in NYC in 2009 they showed me SO9 or SO10'S that were being made entirely by Beretta.

I must've missed those not so good ones, having only picked up and held a couple of examples at Winter Vegas---those left a lasting impression of quality and uniqueness.

They never would have brought a flawed gun to a national show. I truly like their guns but have handled two that should have spent more time on the bench before being shipped.

wow i had looked at there guns a lot at the vegas show.i thought that it was a great fit and finish.the triggers were just great, little works of art.i have never looked a bad one, but two in the same place must have left you in shock i can't imagine that the company would send two bad guns to the same place. mc

Things are tough at the higher end, including yachts, top shelf firearms and pinacle hunting opportunities...

Perazzi with its name and reputation is going to wipe out all the other Italian high end guns. Its just a matter of time.

Perazzi's are great guns for what they are, they are literal bank vaults...in all respects.

Yeah, I've owned a Perazzi, liked it, but why would you want them to wipe out the competition?

Just throwing it out there for discussion.

Remember that Perazzi nearly went under sevral times. They have neither streamlined their product variations, manufacturing processes or instilled loyalty in their dealer network.

There is a lot (IMO) that Mauro has to do to get Perazzi on very solid ground.

I didn’t know that about Perazzi. Still they have accomplished much in a very short period of time, earning name recognition throughout the world considering many of these Italian high end gunmakers have only been around a relatively short period of time.

Maybe because they make top shelf competition shotguns? Just a SWAG here, but Perazzi, Piotti, Purdey-- Hallmarks as well known as: Rolex, Steinway, Ferrari-etc.. The very word competition means, as old Billy S. once so wisely wrote-- "Now cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war"- You compete to win and to bury the opponents so far into the dust they can't rise up for the next event, right??

FAMARS went bankrupt on October 2012, what a pity.

Not only would it be interesting and educational to read the whole story behind the demise of FAMARS but the financial state of the entire high end shotgun industry throughout the world. I thought that developing a better over/under would save that industry, obviously it didn’t.

Interesting - it seemed like it was last year that they went on a big branding push with clothing and accessories. I wonder if the investment that required contributed to their financial problems.

This is too cynical a thought to have at this hour of the morning, but FAMAR's fate hardly seems unusual when compared to most of the other high-end makers. Going back 120 years, which one hasn't experienced financial hardship or worse?

Bosis
Piotti
FAMARS
Perazzi
Beretta SOs
F'lli Rizzini
Fabbri

That seems like a lot of makers (just in Italy) looking to sell $30k+ OUs - how deep is that market, really?

I have worked with and extended credit to retailers for over 30 years. Small independents to large national chains. The times I am most worried about credit is when some retailer is showing me their grand plans for expansion.

Yep, and Holland & Holland are owned by the Chanel group.

That, of course, explains their short-lived line of clothing that was introduced some years ago to much snickering. Their new line of clothing is rather nice.

The market for discretionary toys in this price range is deeper than one might think, but the competition is fierce.

I agree Gnomon and to deal in the affluent market name recognition is in my opinion paramount. But a name earned is a lot more expensive then a name given or assigned by that affluent society. Perazzi is earning their name, the English makers have already earned their names, did FAMARS?

I saw the writing on the wall several months ago.

It is a shame. I very much enjoyed meeting Christina a few years ago and getting a tour of the factory while I was in Gardonne.

I can't say I'm surprised, though pretty, their guns had a tendency to be unreliable and their quality control was erratic. After-sales service was very poor too often. Finally it has all imploded. Very sad but these are tough times and all but the best run businesses run the risk of failing.

Not to nitpick but Holland & Holland is owned by the family that owns Chanel... They are not owned by the Chanel Group. It may be a small distinction but it is a very important distinction when it comes to the decision making process of the company.

Since we already have a bit of thread drift present, I'd posit that Tony G. & CSM has perhaps one of the the better business plans for a small shop today. They do some spectacular high end work as well when desired and charge accordingly, plus they back all of their work up to the hilt. For those with a 'buy American' bent, we should be very proud that it is working well for them. I am.

Kolar is another small shop player that has become a presense in the American target gun market, though mostly skeet from my perspective. There is at least one flyer shooter of note using one.

Back to the Italian gun scene, Caesar Guerini is making a good name for themselves on many fronts here w/serviceable & reliable target guns. I personally do not think of them as high end, but I know several people who are doing their best to wear some of them out & they continue to perform and they have a 'balance' in some models that makes them lively for the intended use. Guerini are also spending 'tons' on advertising & doing the usual things to get some 'name' folks to shoot them. Time will tell if they become lasting players in the target gun market.

I find Dig's remarks on A&S both polite & spot on. It is a shame, quite. In the same breath, A&S made 'exquisite' for an ill definded carriage trade and the few top end guns I know of that got heavy use were not up to it.

On the P-guns, Chuck said it. Short & sweet.

P&V, OTOH, do near zero advertisment, but the discerning know what they are capable of and go to them willingly. Small shop, good guys, funny and fair. No pretense. They have a dif bidness model & they are proud. I think they will continue to be around. Wot's not to like about that?

They did not go out of business because of any of the above mentioned causes. The reason is more profound than that.

They made exquisite guns and could do some things no other gun maker could or would do, such as a full sidelock gun where the entire trigger group and locks fell out with a simple backward push of the safety. They will be missed.

Halifax, why did they go out of business ?

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

It's just business. Perazzi is dominant in several target markets because they build the best tool. They will also build what amount to bespoke guns but they don't have to since their market is a sort of tailored but not one off kinda gun. Krieghoff bought the skeet gun market. Beretta is making a run on the trap stuff by buying some top shooters. Churchill pointed out that all of his competition were fools for building those stupid long barrels.

It's only business. You either meet/exploit the target segment's market demands, make their demands match your product, or fail. No mysteries there.

have a day

Dr.WtS

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.



Arnie's best line ever.

I'd forgotten that line. A little Google research turned up this website.

http://www.barbariankeep.com/ctbsecrets.html

The line originated in

"... a book by Harlod Lamb titled, GENGHIS KAHN: THE EMPEROR OF ALL MEN, pages 106-107:

One day in the pavilion at Karakorum he [Genghis Kahn] asked an officer of the Mongol guard what, in all the world, could bring the greatest happiness.

"The open steppe, a clear day, and a swift horse under you," responded the officer after a little thought, "and a falcon on your wrist to start up hares."

"Nay," responded the Kahn, "to crush your enemies, to see them fall at your feet -- to take their horses and goods and hear the lamentation of their women. That is best.""

I heard a different version of this one.

Once G. K. was riding alone in the mountains and stumbled upon a some kind of holy man. G. K. felt for him for some reason and told him his biggest problem: he had many sons and grandsons, but didn't have a clue whom to appoint as his heir. The holy man advised him to ask them a number of questions, including the one about the greatest pleasure. So G.K. did. Some of his sons and grandsons said the pleasure was in wine, and others in falcon hunting, birth of your first son, etc. etc. etc. G.K. began to wonder if the holy man was so wise after all, when the last one he asked, the youngest grandson called Batu, said this phrase about lamentation of women. "Fine", said Genghis Khan, "You'll be in charge when I die".

This is just a legend, but Batu did hear lots of lamentation...

Daryl Hallquist

If you want to PM me I will respond to your question.

Halifax

Well this thread has been going on since March has anyone figured out what happened to FAMARS other than they didn't sell enough guns?

It would appear halifax believes he knows but is unwilling to share it with the forum as a whole. Perhaps the reasons for FAMARS demise are very personal for the principals and have little to do with the actual day to day business. That is what I would infer from halifax's cryptic assertion.

Well, they are Italians.


have a day

Dr.WtS

I think you're right Canvasback after re-reading Halifax's post. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

Good afternoon forum, This thread is quite interesting and we FAMARS and FAMARS USA wish to put any and all rumors to rest. FAMARS IT was purchased by FAMARS USA. Our production of bespoke guns is currently underway. The same excellent, hand crafted guns are being built in our new factory in Italy. The only difference is FAMARS today is the MANAGEMENT. FAMARS IT and FAMARS USA are managed by the same group that has gone above and beyond to take care of ANY AND ALL clients of FAMARS IT that have had difficulty in getting their guns, and or getting service. A lot of people have made assumptions over the years about FAMARS and this post is to set the record straight. FAMARS is back and better than ever; with a growing dealer network and ambassador program FAMARS has expanded into other markets of sporting: Clothing, Knives, Hunting accessories, and much more! For more information on FAMARS and the items we manufacture please visit www.famars.com | www.famarsusa.com | www.shopfamars.com. Should you have any questions about FAMARS and this post please call Andrew @ 401.397.5500 or 855.FAMARS1.

Thank you and best regards,
Andrew (FAMARS DIRECTOR OF MARKETING)

That's good news! I wish you well with the new arrangement. Have seen several of your guns that are works of art. Welcome to the forum, stay and keep us up to date. Good luck!

Andrew
Welcome on your first posting
YEEEEE HAWWWW !!
Great news,
Thank you
Mike

FAMARS guns are beautiful, handle extremely well and they can do any custom options you might desire. They are going to have a steep uphill battle against their reliability and customer service problems experienced in the past. I wish them well.
Regards,
Jeff

Jeff,
Thanks for pointing this out. FAMARS USA's main goal is to provide just that, world class service for all US clients. This was a challenge in the past for FAMARS IT due to logistics. FAMARS USA has a full time gunsmith who has been trained by our Italian craftsman to fix any and all problems that may occur. The other benefit of having a US point of distribution is that all guns that are here state side have no other fees associated with them; Taxes and duties have been paid.

With FAMARS USA here facilitating repairs and service if a firing pin breaks the gun can and will be turned around in a very short period of time. This on top of broken stocks due to user error are the typical repairs we see. besides that the reliability you speak off may have existed many years ago, our guns of today are mechanically sound.

All the best,
Andrew