Hi Everyone, I posted earlier about my recent purchase of a nice little Fox Sterlingworth 20ga. 26 inch barrels, 5 lbs 14ozs. I'm in northern Wisconsin and a avid grouse hunter. Right now it is choked Imp. Mod and Imp. Mod. I intend to shoot mostly skeet and take her afield for some grouse work. My thoughts are Skeet 1 and Skeet 2 or Skeet 1 and Mod. I'm open to your thoughts. My primary Grouse gun is a W&S 700 12ga. Skeet 1 and Skeet 2 at 6 lbs 2 ozs. I'm also a fan of Cyl. bore but only have experience with that in a 12. Shot a lot of grouse and skeet with a old beat up L.C.Smith with cut off barrels. 1 of the best grouse guns I had was a L.C. Smith grade 3, 28inch barrels choked Cyl. & Mod. So, thoughts anyone!
Skeetx makes a good point. If you decide to open up the chokes. I'd make them .005 and .015. And you're good to go.
Hi:
I hunt with two 20 gage SxS guns and they are both choked I.C and Mod. I never lusted for any other chokes as I seldom take two shots at birds!
Try the spreader loads and see if you want to open the chokes.
Stay well,
Franchi
s
x
Never hunted the Ruffed Grouse but if were going to use it over pointing dogs in the pursuit of Bobwhites I would choke it cylinder and improved cylinder. If I thought I would also pursue wild Ringnecks with it cylinder and full.
Best,
Mike
IM/IM sounds really tight for a grouse gun. With respect to what SkeetTX Mike's conservative approach, I'd still open the first shot to an IC for that first year. That leaves plenty of choke for playing with later but puts some additional utility in the gun, and it leaves enough choke for the other Mike's approach to using it as a pheasant gun. IM/IC is not a bad 20ga setup for most situations.
As a die hard Ruffed Grouse hunter, I think you are on the right track with skt I / skt II, but cyl / lt mod or ic / mod would work for me too. I'm not real keen on cyl choke for hi-power shells (Rem Exp or Fed Hi Powers) which I like to use for grouse because they seem to blow the pattern out somewhat. If shooting low pressure, real light loads, cyl would be great IMHO.
Couple of my favorite 20s for grouse run .003/.010 (M-21) and .007/.017 (AS20EL). .003 is as open as I want. .010, a first bbl LM, can be made to work using soft shot, promo loads, etc. Tighter than that starts to wreck birds. We can hunt grouse till the end of December here, so a fairly tight 2nd bbl isn't a horror.
I would do as Mike advises, and try spreaders for a season. And I agree with Buzz: I have no use for true cylinder subgauges (suppose Chuck's forcing cone treatment might change my mind.
Sam
I don't get to hunt grouse much in AZ, but I used to in PA. The chokes I use on my Parker 20ga, which is my favorite bird gun, is skeet and modified. Works well for desert quail, Huns in Idaho and even pheasant in South Dakota. If I were making the gun exclusively for grouse and skeet I would probably go with skeet1 and skeet 2 as I can not recall ever having a shot at grouse beyond 25yds.
Surprised no one has asked this Badger State gent what breed and style dog he hunts grouse with- About 5 years ago, when I thought we'd have a legal dove season in MI- I bought a Utica mfg. Sterlingworth 20 gauge- 28" choked Imp. cyl. and mod., DT and ejectors- fine gun--that would still be my choice if I were grouse hunting at age 72--but as they say- "it ain't the gun that kills the grouse, it's the legs- yours and the dog's too"--
I recommend RST to anyone, Morris is an avid grouse hunter- likes Parker 20's- My guess- he might suggest trying spreader loads for the first season or two, before you have the chokes altered. If you do decide to do that, Mark Beasland is the right guy for that job--
I predict you won't shoot much skeet with Polywad spreader loads.
Not that it's not a great product, it is.
It's also a standard velocity 7/8 oz. load and your gun weighs less than six pounds. All I can say is, 'ouch'.
In the field, it's no matter... at skeet it equals flinch.
Likewise, the $14/box problem. Not unreasonable for custom hunting ammo, a tad spendy for skeet loads.
Since you stated 'mostly skeet', have it skeet choked. Suggest .003 both barrels. I'd load my own 3/4 oz skeet loads for it, and switch to plated and/or buffered loads for the field situations that require an effective pattern at a bit longer range.
No gun does everything...
To Foxy, English Springers. Are there any other dogs for Grouse??? Flushers all the way! Builder has hunted over my girls and knows what they can do! I thank everyone for there feedback and think I will leave the left barrel as is and open the right to Imp. Cyl. Do some patterns and see what happens. Thanks all! Keep the tread going!
As A second thought as to dogs. Most pointers who come north Range way to far for Grouse. If kept close they can do well but most don't. This should get a topic going!
I suggest that you do some patterning with that right bbl. before doing anything choke modification wise. Try several dif loads, inclusive of some spreaders and see what it does. Actually do it with both bbls, doing a POI regulation check first and then the 'where is it shooting for you' testing. If everything is OK then its perhaps some minor skeet and local sporty clays activity during the summer to keep you tuned to the gun, but not too much, a box is plenty for an outing. Assuming the bbls are regulated well enough, if its not shooting where you are looking then a hot oil bend on the stock makes a lot more sense than opening the choke. Just an opinion.
Might try a round of gun off the shoulder skeet first [like you are coming up behind a dog and ready for the flush] & see if you are shooting the gun at least to your average. I made that suggestion to a bloke w/a new acquisition once before; told him to forget about the pattern [and the myriad of pattern/choke questions he had] and just shoot it first & see if he could hit anything with it as it was. And I was instantly skinned alive by EDM when he was still w/us. Bent his 'pattern first' feeler but good. He even took Pete hunting as a result of my stepping on his patterning nerve. I know they had a good time too. Anyway, I'll stick my neck out once again and say it is not going to hurt for you to see if you can shoot it as is first. And there can be a significant difference in what a choke is marked, what it actually measures and what it does. Look at the quality of your target breaks; shoot the skeet doubles backwards taking the first target before the centre of the field. If you are getting ink spot breaks, its probably too tight, otherwise it may not be.
Just come to Amarillo and bring the gun and with coaching from me, Amarillo Mike and Joe Wood, by the time you go back, you will have fired so many rounds from the gun that it will be at skeet and skeet and you will be smiling
Also, RST makes a speader lite in 20 gauge
http://www.rstshells.com/rst_classic_shotshells_shotshells.htmMike
I am also a big RST fan. I too would recommend patterning with different loads before making any irreversible changes. According to Alex at RST their spreader loads open up about 1 full choke size at tighter chokes, but the effect lessens as one goes to more open chokes.
These are reloads using the Polywad insert shot out of a IM/F 16 gauge. 7/8 oz. of 8's at 15 yards. The paper is 30" wide. They work.
I love RST's, and I've found that cyl works fine in the WI woods using their 7/8 oz 20ga loads. That being said, although I shot a lot of woods birds last season, the vast majority were woodcock. Shots tend to be a bit closer on average than grouse. When I tested spreaders, I found that the Polywads spread more than the RST's.
For skeet, I can report very positive results with 3/4 oz reloads of 8 1/2's or 9's using Claybuster's 3/4 oz 20ga wad through a 20ga choked C/IC (.000/.007).
Has anyone disassembled a RST shell to see what they use to get the pattern to open up?
