What should one expect to reasonably pay for a "lesser maker" 12 gauge English hammerless A&D boxlock with 28" IC&M 2-3/4" barrels in very good condition with 50% engraving on the action? Likely made in the 1920's to 1950's time frame...

gold40

According to Rocketman's price charts based on prices realized at auction, depending on the specifics involved, between $1200 and $1700.

That is assuming a Brand Value 3 (lesser maker), Original Quality of 7 (Border engraved ejector or 1/3 engraved non ejector) and Current Condition of 3 or 4 (significant to heavy use but no abuse).

Rocketman has it down to a science.

There are plenty out there at the moment on the British market representing amazing values. Non-ejectors are fetching very little here. Might be worth considering importing something. Lagopus.....

I just bought a mechanically sound BLNE for $400, better name on it, but trade made. Could use refinishing of wood and barrels (dent and ding free, in-proof, excellent wall thickness) but perfectly serviceable as is. I would consider myself lucky to get a grand for it after said cosmetic restoration was performed.

Very well done, canvasback.

Dan, when I was developing the above referenced charts, although I knew it was not true, I assumed the market would connect brand name and original quality. I was amazed to find out that the market doesn't care if the gun was made by in-workers, out-workers, or the trade. The market does care for the name (or lack of) on the gun by a factor of up to eight times value.

DDA

Rocketman, always excellent insights. To your point, having a Webley and Scott gun shot and regulated by Holland and Holland catapults it into low five figure territory:

http://www.drake.net/products/Holland-and-Holland-London.-Beautiful-12ga.-Northwood-wildfowl-gun--ca.-1960---Price-$12500--?id=29627

Don,
Is your system posted somewhere? I have a nice little Army and Navy SLE built on a Webley screw grip action, 16 bore to boot. Nice rose and scroll and very nice wood. It will be nicely restored when placed for sale, great barrels reblacked and a proper oil finish, action original patena with crisp engraving. I have a price in mind but wonder what your system values it at.
Steve

Lagopus has the used market for non-ejectors alone gone soft or for most low grade guns in general. In my travels I am seeing a lot of basic, lower grade guns, which are just not selling for any but the most reduced prices. And that is mostly American here but does seem to include a good number of British, French and German made guns.

Basic guns are just dead beyond a certain price point. Higher graded guns and guns in high condition do seem to be doing better but nothing with two barrels laid out in the proper side by side configuration is what I call a hot seller right now.

Recently, I have seen at least 3 or 4 decent quality and condition no name boxlock ejector guns go for sub 1K. Similar to this:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/567216002

Seems like a soft market. I have only sold a few side by sides, all lower grade non-ejector (all I can afford), but they have taken a lot of time and effort to move. The lowly boxlock gets no love, unless it is a Parker or AH Fox apparently

Here Spanish and Italian double 12's in non-ejector form cost so little. I have picked up excellent examples in near mint condition for around £30 to £40 and passed them on making about £10 to £20 profit mainly from people who just want to shift them. Still they are hard to sell. English non-ejectors in plain form can be had for between £100 and £150 with ejectors, depending on make, condition and quality from £400 to £1,500. I think there was a slowdown in the market due to the uncertainty of the lead shot issue with people being reluctant to buy a gun they they maybe couldn't afford to feed. I am hoping things will pick up now. Exceptional examples and ones from top end makers will always find a buyer. Currently I have three boxlock ejectors that I am looking to sell in the U.K.; a near mint 90% example of a Webley & Scott double 12 with 28" barrels and 2 3/4" chambers, a Cogswell & Harrison double 12 with 28" barrels, very light gun with recent nitro re-proof and 2 1/2" chambers with an oak and leather case and a double 12 Sigot of Ferlach 28" barrels but with sleeved barrels. I'm not a dealer so just advertising locally with a view to shifting them on. I just hope the price goes up a little now. Most dealers I speak to seem to have quite a few side by sides for sale. I doubt if there will ever be a better time for U.S. investors to find a decent basic English gun. Lagopus.....

The market for British boxlocks is very soft! There are some wonderful buys out there if one looks diligently especially paying attention to barrel conditions... wall thicknesses, chokes and chamber lengths as they make fine field guns. I find they exhibit a certain charm and character not found in most Spanish boxlocks. Good luck...

Ed

When we say "soft", I think that's in specific reference to 12's. All the Brit smallbores command a good bit more money. American too of course, but in the case of the British guns, smallbores are even less common in comparison to 12's than they are with the old American classic doubles.

So, BV3-OQ2-CC4 = $5,563 and the 16 bore will add, probably, around 1.5X, although, 16 bore has become somewhat "soft" recently.

This gun was also supplied in lower OQ grades.

Questions?

DDA

Rocketman,

A question, where is your "system" posted?

Very, very close to the number I had in mind. Thank you.
Steve

Claybird, it isn't posted. I share by email or snail mail. If interested, send an email address or land address and I'll send you the file or hardcopy. The file runs in Excel.

DDA

Values based on sufficient experience and my numbers run very close. I'm sure you have said "sufficient" experience.

I developed the charts to jump start me on values. It quickly became apparent that there are lot of us who can use the jump start. Not a lot of people get to handle enough guns on going to develop value intuition. The charts also help focus some required learning/knowledge. If you practice valuing guns on auction sites, you get feedback from the prices realized chart after the auction.

Hope this helps a little.

DDA

Rocketman. You are over your topic level and won't accept a new pm

Oooops! I'll fix it right away.

Fixed.

DDA