One thing I've wondered a while now about SXS guns is why the firing order is the way it is. I get the concept of having chokes of varying constrictions, but it just seems sort of backwards to me to fire right then left. I've always found that while the right barrel feels softer to shoot, the muzzles are pulled farther off target because of the recoil than the left, which is the opposite. In my mind it makes more sense to have the left side fire first, because it's faster to recover from the recoil on that side.

Is there any specific reason for a R/L firing order as opposed to L/R, or is it just a case of things having been done that way since the inception of the double gun and never being altered?

There is no discernible difference in how much the gun is pulled laterally off axis when the right or the left barrel is fired. Most S x Ss are set up with the right barrel being the most open. Therefore, in most upland flushing situations, the right (more open barrel) is fired first, and if a second shot is needed the left is fired. Incoming birds often call for just the opposite, but there's more of the former than the latter, evidently.

Because I shoot doves and ducks a lot I often do just the opposite. I use the left barrel first, if the gun is typically choked, on an incoming bird a good ways out, then use the right, more open choked barrel as the birds close the distance.

There are guns which have been ordered with the right barrel being tighter than the left.
And, there are guns which have been ordered with the front trigger firing the left barrel, instead of the right.

SRH

Stan those were ordered for left hand shooters...

Most all guns shoot right barrel first and the triggers are staggered the way they are for a reason...safety mainly.

A true left hand double trigger will be staggered just the opposite.

On most SxS's because most all are right handed guns. The rear trigger is kind of hidden behind the front trigger so under recoil should your grip slip on the gun or your finger get jarred back under recoil your finger can't sweep back and hit the rear trigger causing an unwanted double firing.

I'm left handed and have owned and shot lots double trigger guns (all were right handed triggered) and I've had the double fire happen under heavy recoil more than once. Trust me it's indistinguishable from one shot.

Most times hunting because of that with a heavy recoiling gun I shot rear to front to avoid the chance of a double fire...I had it happen once on a 10ga. stuffed with 1& 3/4 oz of shot and 130 grs of FF in each shell.

Joe, I too am a lefty. That instantaneous "doubling". I agree that is something you only want to do once. Double the bang and I imagined that is what it feels like being kicked by a mule.

I was fortunate to buy a 12g. Fox at a local show. Took to the skeet range the next day only to hear the guys laugh that I got another gun that doesn't fire. Standard procedure to stand on station #1 and chamber a shell in the Right barrel(most open choke). Pull... Click, no bang. Try again. Pull... Click, no bang. Just laughing around the pad. Let's try 2 shells and use the rear trigger. Pull... bang, dead bird. Open action and right barrel had fired. Try the left barrel with front trigger and bang. Dam someone switched the triggers. After looking at the gun better I realized it was a Lefty. Even though it was set up correct for me I never could get use to it. Just adapted to long ago to the righty type of gun. Eventually just sent it on to it's next owner.

I have a Merkle O/U 20g. that was a single trigger, choked full and skeet. Non selective trigger fires the full choke first. I never did figure out why that set up. Maybe driven birds ????

I would suppose...maybe an English chap would explain.

I recently bought a UK imported Browning Superposed that has screw in chokes...had a cylinder in the top and a modified in the bottom.

The gun has a barrel selective safety so selection played no part...Being that most people shoot the bottom barrel first on an O/Ur it kinda puzzled me a little.
What ever the fellow was shooting he was expecting his first shot to be longer...just the opposite of upland hunting.

I will give the explanation I have been given and read a number of times over the years about the lay out of a Brit traditional side by side. First of all, it is nothing to do with the barrels or choking it is all to do with practicality and tradition thrown in and I am sure you are aware that we Brits run on tradition. If you take a single barrel gun in the far past gunmakers always without exception put the lock on the tight hand side because everyone in their eyes was right handed being a lefty had lots of bad associations Devil etc, even to Edwardian times children who were obviously left handed where made to change to being right handed with disastrous results in many cases. That being the case the cock hammer or the part that held the glowing match was to be found on the right side of the gun’s lay out. With a single barrel gun, no problem lock on the right and one trigger and you are right handed well the gunmaker says you are. Then two barrels came along two locks one either side of the gun and you only have one thumb to pull the cock or hammer to half or full cock, and not every person who shoots has a hand the size of a coal shovel so to raise the right hand cock or hammer is easier because your thumb is in a straighter line with your wrist, the left hammer is a more oblique pull and to many people more effort is needed (this does include myself) this being the case the right hand hammer or cock was favoured and in consequence the right hand barrel because of the guns physical layout. It is also said that on walking up game the bird when flushed is closer to the gun so the first barrel you use requires less choke but that came a lot later after the design was set.
Also, on many vintage Brit side by side guns you can change the barrel firing order just by swapping the triggers over though not all. On occasions this can be a benefit, the odd time I visit a friend who lives a good distance away who is a left hander I can borrow one of his guns because it has neutral cast and just do a quick trigger swap.
But like all things in life there may be a lot more explanation’s though I do like this one.

What did they say about the ambidextrous ?

Who gave a toss about that 1% they where to busy keeping the left hand use out of sight for most of history in the early days you could be burnt at the stake for being a Witch, I thought I made that clear left handedness was not a good thing. jOe why dont you slip back and ask if you are so interested to know?

Simple answer to the original post is Yes its the way its always been done .
I doubt if any one can say why .I agree it dose seem a little odd but thats the gun trade for you . A little odd !

No, jOe, I'm talking about guns that were built for a right-handed man, with the triggers obviously so, and having the right barrel with the tighter choke than the left. When you see cast off in a stock, there's a very high likelihood it was built for a righty. Not many lefties want a gun with cast off (which would be "cast on" for them).

SRH

A former co-worker of mine had a little 20 gauge Ithaca Flues "Bird" gun. It had been ordered special from Ithaca by his left-handed uncle. They neither reversed the trigger placements nor the choking, but simply "Twisted" the trigger faces to the left in this instance. If you will note on most doubles the triggers have a slight twist to the right, this one had it to the left.

Lots of American sxs guns that were built as the standard 28" M & F have been modified to open the left barrel to IC to turn a duck gun into bird gun. You can do what Stan suggests and shoot the far bird first with the tighter barrel or you can pull the rear trigger first on a covey rise with a little practice...Geo

Every Wednesday after our black powder skeet shoot we sat around and talked SxSs with Ed Mason and Charlie Lindsey holding court..I recall when I first got interested in hammer guns I studied every aspect of them. One day I remarked that it was great how they had designed the double triggers...(remember I'm left handed) we were looking at a gun...with gun in hand I showed them how after shooting the front trigger my finger just swepted back to the rear trigger for the next shot.

With that I was told how wrong I was and that I was shooting a right handed gun...the back trigger is always hidden to keep your finger from hitting the back upon recoil.

A short time later I was shooting at the 5 stand with another guy...no gloves or barrel guard the barrels had gotten too hot to hold.

Then it happened a couple of times...a double fire. My buddy said you better get Ed to look at that gun...I replied no the gun is fine I just had a shooting lesson.

Right on the money.. The late John Olin had his M21's custom set-up for left barrel first- but he was right handed-- At least that's what I believe I had read about him and his gunning "preferences".. All my side-by-side shotguns have the right barrel more open than the left-- except my Smith LONGRANGE-- both are full choked, so I guess it really doesn't make a great deal of difference with that set-up.

I agree 100% with Stan here, even though we don't have dove seasons in MI--shooting barn pigeons and crows over field decoys, you often get incomers, so using the tighter choked left hand barrel first is often a good call, especially on multiple incomers, ditto on ducks if you use a double. As steel shot is now the law of the land, I use Model 12's- 12 gauge full choked for waterfowling nowadays. RWTF

Well, Joe- if you follow MLB in the 1930's era-- Dizzy Dean was the commentator for a Cards game, talking about a promising rookie pitcher who was able to pitch equally well with either "paw"--

"This kid can pitch with either hand OK- guess he's an amphibian"..

Indeed, Olde Chap-- and how about one of the "proofs" of that enlightened era-- that being that all witches had 3 nipples?? Fancy that, ey wot??? Foxy

Fox you might need to get your medication checked...

There are all kind of things you can speculate about and do...but 99% or better of double trigger guns you'll see are for right hand shooters...by design.

While we're on the topic of doubling...I have a 10ga SxS, it weighs around 12lbs. I was doing some load development one day during goose season last fall, working up some 2 1/4oz turkey loads, and having been out that morning I had oiled up my gun when I got home. Turns out that there's a great path for oil to flow down around the trigger guard and onto the grip somewhere in the lock work. The grip got slicked up by the oil, and I didn't really notice until under the recoil of the first shot, the gun slid rearwards out of my grip having imparted enough momentum to my hand for my trigger finger to slip back and hit the rear trigger. That's the first time in my life that I've ever found my muzzles pointing up 45 degrees after a shot. It must have been fast enough to, my chrony survived.

That's on this weeks "to-do" list. amigo mio. I test my ACL every other morning (after I read the obits in the newspaper, to make sure I am "one of the living," Mark Twain was reported to also do this.

Appreciate your deep concern for the health and well-being of this "Damn Yankee"---Foxy

Also, as a right handed shooter, am I alone in finding the left barrel easier to control but harder on the shoulder? The guns I shoot regularly do have some cast off, I'll give the one I have with neutral cast a try at some point.

Oil, the new way to make an illegal bump stock. Ouch in the 10 bore version.

Had an uncle who reversed the choking in a .410 and reversed the triggers to fire the left barrel first from the front trigger. I asked him why. He explained he liked shooting the .410 at quail but was worried about cripples on covey rises. He called it collateral damage as he killed one bird, another nearby bird would get a few fringe pellets. So he wanted as tight a first barrel as could get. He then wanted an extra, extra tight second barrel for his second shot. When he had the barrel wall thickness measured they found the right barrel was much thicker than the left barrel. Both were choked full, about .020-.022. He had the left barrel back bored several thousand for two inches behind the choke and the entire bore polished to mirror smoothness. Gave .025 choke in the thinner, first to be shot, left barrel. On the right barrel they backbored it almost five inches to a total of .014-016”. They back bored it two Iniches and patterned it. Took a few more thousand off and checked again. The extended the back bore another inch at a time until the pattern stopped getting better. Opened it up more until either the pattern stopped getting better or they ran chicken. He said they could have stopped at 3- 1/2” or 4” in hindsight. That barrel is very, very thin but out there the pressures are fairly plow. He then had the triggers reversed and had extra bend in them to make them easier to use.

That gun smokes clay targets at ranges a 12 would be proud of. But it is feast or famine as to if you hit the bird or not. I will happily shoot Dove at 30 yards but won’t at 15. What it does to a low seven on a skeet field is impressive but the same hit on a real bird would be a stupid waste with the right barrel.

Im a righty, and do not find either barrel easier to control that the other. Most of my guns have a bit of cast off, some quite a bit. I find that makes not noticeable difference. I would expect that it would make it easier, not harder if it did have an effect.

I occasionally go for the back barrel first on long shots for pheasants. But those are one-shot affairs. Too far out for a second shot.

With ducks I used to try to remember to shoot the back bird first and then go for the close bird, which would make reversing the order useful. But I rarely remember to do that. I get entranced watching them come in and almost always end up focusing on the closest bird.

Until you apologize and contribute financially to this board Freddy the free loader no one cares what you think...

John Olin, Dizzy Dean, witches with 3 titties now Mark Twain and amigos

fOx have lost your ever loving mind ?

That's fine with me Frank. I really do not care what you think. Apparently, Dave doesn't care what you think either.

Carry on.

Maybe, maybe not quite yet, Joseph- appreciate your concern!! RWTF

I have to say that this thread has been one of the most enlightening I have read in a while. I have been shooting for over 60 years, many with doubles and today is the most information I have ever seen about all the personal modifications people have done to doubles. I have probably let some pretty decent guns go because they "didn't shoot well." I may have been able to have made some personal changes that would have made me shoot the gun better. The only modification I have ever had done to a gun was to have the chokes opened on a double I have from Modified and Full to IC and Mod. Oh well. Live and learn.

This is the only thing I found enlightening...

Perhaps interesting would have been more appropriate than enlightening!!

The answer to this puzzlement are all in your post.

Unlike in the US style of hunting, the predominate wingshooting in the UK is driven birds. The Guns stand in a line, and a great distance away is a group of beaters (sometimes only with flags, or sometimes with spaniels) who walk towards the line of guns, driving the game towards you. Driven pheasants which are stocked at large estates, driven grouse which are native on the moors in the north, and some even shoot "flighted" mallards. And now, it has become popular to shoot wood pigeons over decoys or at dusk; while not a game bird, this is also often an incoming bird.

Our idea of pheasant, quail, and grouse hunting - walking hedge rows, forests, and fields and behind dogs - is called "rough shooting" or "walked up."

Because the overwhelming style of wingshooting is on incoming, driven game, having an OU with the bottom barrel choked tight makes a lot of sense.

Thanks that's what I figured.

I remember you saying that several times.

Howdy jOe. Are you talking about Stan killing doubles on doves shooting the left barrel first, where the tighter choke was shot 1st on incomers and killin’ doubles? Yes, I saw his post on that in this very tread.....but alas, it disappeared. It certainly sounds like a magnificent feat, indeed. Not too sure why the post was deleted, but oh well. I have a gun made similarily, where the right barrel is choked more than the left. I’m assuming it was made for incoming targets. It’s an English gun, so driven birds? It’s easy to switch double triggers if need be, if practiced, no matter how the chokes/triggers are situated.

I deleted the post because I assumed I was being redundant, in having had posted it before ..............."several times".

SRH

Stan it doesn't hurt to repeat yourself we all do it all the time.

Just part of getting old...ask Toby Keith.

As a lad; living in the sandhills of Nebraska; a shotgun was almost always 30" full choke.
It took me many years (and probably better shotshells) to learn that more "open" chokes worked better for me.
Nowadays, I have a grandson, a shooting whiz, who learned to shoot with a "skeet" choke.
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

As an employee of a "Cabela's Gun Library," I learned that on double rifles, a person shot the rear trigger FIRST. The reason was that if one was in a hurry and let his finger slip while shooting front trigger first, one could "double."
They say it only took once to learn the lesson.
Sam

That is interesting information. I didn't know that...Geo

I was just reading a story on another forum by a woman who did just that on a cape buffalo. Second shot went high into orbit, but the first one was sufficient so it did not matter, except to her shoulder.

The only double rifles I've ever shot were relatively small (18 bore and a .45 BPE). Neither recoiled more than a shotgun so it seems the front-trigger-first issue wasn't really an issue at all.

I recall in one of Robert Ruark' s articles he wrote about his .470NE as I recall would double if the front trigger was fired first, though he gave no explanation as to why. Seems as on this particular hunt he shot a nice horned "Pink Elephant" ( It had been wallowing in some red ocher earth) in the rain & remembered to pull the rear trigger first. Then hs guide, Selby I believe, told him to go up & give it that insurance shot, so he shot a dead Elephant & having reloaded, forgot & pulled the front trigger. Flipped him head over heels into a thorn bush.

Mr. Olin had the chokes reversed from the norm not the triggers. His right barrel was full and the left more open.

Ruark also detailed that he had a .404 Jeffrey on a Mauser action-- but the wing safety went South- so the only way he could put that rifle on SAFE was to lift up the bolt handle.

Ruark was a gifted writer, even better on Africa than Hemingway (but not equal to Peter Capstick) IMO.. But he was a raging alcoholic, and miss-handled his firearms- Without Selby backing him up with his .416 Rigby, he would have been trampled to death by "M'Bogo" long before he died in Spain in 1965 from cancer.

Hemingway, Ruark and Capstick were all serious alcoholics from my reading of their work and biographical information

Why? All his custom-built M21's had the single selective triggers-- With that option, you can choose whether to shoot the tighter choked barrel first, or secondly- in your "chain-of-fire" scenarios.

I use the M21 my late father left me in 1980- for upland birds (preserve fezzants) over pointing "dawgs""- so I always use the open choked barrel first, reserving the second more choked barrel for the second shot- if needed. Old habits die hard!!