I salute the American people in their hour of remembrance of the 9/11 atrocity and I salute President Trump on his speech which I just listened to on BBC News here in the UK.

I used to work just around the corner from the towers, saw them first on my first visit in, I think, 1971 and have been on the top platform of he (north?) tower back in about 1986,
when I lived on the corner 23rd/7th.

I am certain that terrorism in any form will never break the American resolve for freedom!

My best wishes
Gunter
NRA Life 1974

And many of us here salute you, Gunter, for your well-spoken sentiments AND for being an NRA Life Member from clear over there when the majority of this country's gun owners cannot get off their pratts and support our 2nd Amendment rights in their own back yard.............

With appreciation,

Rob Harris

Thank you Gunter, for those words and for your support of American freedom, and support for our gun rights.

Rob, your comment is spot on, and I agree with you 100%. Good to see you posting. I hope you are doing well.

No war is over until you recognize the enemy and terminate the threat...Geo

My Wife and I were in the UK celebrating our 25th anniversary and when we stopped at a petrol station and the folks there said they were "sorry about our troubles" We didn't know what "troubles" they were talking about, but they soon informed us. Rushed back to our friend Max's home in Kingsthorpe in time to see the towers come down. Spent the rest of our trip at our friends stationed at JAC Molesworth caring for their boys while they were both working long hours.

"You never realize what you had until you lose it." is a common phrase.

Regarding horrendous 'acts of war' on US soil by foreign terrorists.... we enjoyed such innocence until 9/11.

That 'innocence' is lost but in its place stands a much stronger vigil.

We must crush ISIS and the Islamic Jihad-- just as we bombed Japan in August 1945, in part to pay them back for Dec 7-1941-- the Day of Infamy- then repeated on 9/11/2011 buy another non-Christian nation of brutal terrorist. I am re-reading Vince Flynn's novel- "Memorial Day" and we must destroy Islam and Isis and all the camel-humping rag heads who view American as the "Great Satan"--9/11 caught us "Asleep at the switch" just like the Japs did in Dec. 1941-- "Kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out"!! RWTF

I will never forget 9-11. First it is my Wife's birthday. On 9-10 of 2001 she began havig chest pains during the night so I carried her to the emrggency roomm of our local hospital, where they put her in ICU. I already had an early morning Dr's appointment for the 11th for blood test to check my sugar level. Wife told me to keep it before I came to the Hosp.

I was not to eat before my test so I got up & dressed to go for my appointment & did not turn on the TV.No one apparently at the DR's office had gotten the news. I did not find out about it util I got to my Wife's ICU room. Seems the TV in her room had been left on all night & first thing she saw when she woke up was the planes crashing into the towers & she thought she was having some kind of nightmare. When she got fully awake she realized it was no dream, but for real.

As things turned out my sugar was too high & I was put on medication. My Wife was transported to Vanderbilt Medical Center in Nashville TN that afternoon & on the 12th underwent a tripe bypass surgery.

Incidentally one of the passengers on flight #4 which they managed to Crash in Penn without reaching its target was a Mr Bingham. He took an active part in subduing the terrorists & is a "Distant" relative of mine, my Mothers maiden name was Bingham. One of my first cousins as deeply into gemology at te time & made the link, so not just based on him having the same last name.





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9/11 I was in the air flying back to Louisville. Mandatory landing ended up in Detroit. Nobody knew why until Ww saw a tv monitor. I got on my phone and reserved a rental at Budget car. By the time I reached the rental car agency they had a regular line out the door. I was an express member so went into the line with only three people in it. I got my rental and within two minutes they were sold out of units at the airport for budget. They told everyone in line that they were out of cars but we’re trying to bring in cars from other locations.

It was a mad house. In a loud voice I told people around me where I was heading and that three people were welcome to ride along if that got them closer to home. I ended up with four people. One lady and three men. The five hour drive was a bit cramped and very quiet. We all made it home that day. Two got dropped of along the way, one was five miles from my house and the last had someone waiting for her by the time we got home. People pulled together that day.

Ten days later I walked by ground zero. Until my last breath, I will never forget the smell, the sight. I have no real words for my respect to those men and ladies who ran into the building. Ran in to try and save others. God bless them.

Like the dastardly attack on Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941 and the murderous events that occured in New York City, Washington, DC and at a farmers field in Pennsylvania, on September 11, 2001; these are days that will live in infamy...

If we really want to honor the fallen and insure that they did not die in vain, then we as a society need to be on guard and ever vigilant...against the threats of mass murder by insane individuals...regardless of where they come from or their motives...

We need to look out for one other...When all is said and done, it's not up to the gubmint, nor is it up to the police alone to protect us...it's up to all of us...The Second Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear arms; the basic tools necessary for civil defense...But like other tools, they can be dangerous without skilled hands to guide them...We don't need less tools...What we do need is more skilled hands...

I was at my work place in the Washington DC area and saw the planes crash. I knew immediately who did it....and told colleagues we were at war. Here are a few observations:

First - we were incredibly unprepared....this after 45 years of being ready for 30 minute warning for Armageddon.
1) The "Washington Post" had revealed the Continuity of Government" bunkers maintained during the Cold War about 1996....there was no place to evacuate the government in the event of emergency. We had forgotten the Cold War.
2) The entire cell phone network in the DC area went down. The only commo was by those who had radio phones.
3) The senior levels of nearly every federal agency in the government evacuated their buildings leaving the employees sitting there for several hours with no guidance.
4) The F-16's launched to intercept the one high-jacked plane in the air were not armed.
5) Agencies closed in DC putting their employees on the streets with no way of getting out of DC. George Washington University turned its students out of their dorms.
6) All roads were blocked; it was impossible to go anywhere. They thought maybe truck bombs were headed into the city. The subway system shut down.
7) At my wife's agency by the White House...the senior officers fled the building leaving the employees sitting there with a message on the screen that "the director is evaluating the situation"; finally after a couple of hours the building was to be closed. The security guards received no guidance and were clustered at the front entrance. She got them up to the top floor to go office to office to turn those who refused to leave out of their offices, an individual act.
8) Even at the Pentagon Rumsfeld left his office for an hour or two to "survey the damage" when he should have been running the show.

The incredible reaction of Americans:
1) Americans began walking - women and children first. Strangers offered those on the street their addresses where they could bed for the night,. Shops put TV's out on the sidewalk and offered drinks.
2) Kindness and unity dominated. Flags appeared on every freeway overpass.
3) We recovered. Within 3 days President Bush convened a meeting at Camp David. CIA showed up with an assessment and a complete plan of action and to Rumsfeld's dismay was given OpCom for the Afghan operation. It had men on the ground in the most remote area of Asia in 10 days...and overthrew the Taliban in 75 days after the attack.

After that...in Afghanistan...we lost our way... I can explain this but will forgo that for the moment.

But it was a day that won't be forgotten. My heart turned to stone. Usually there's a busy fly-way down the Potomac going into Reagan-National. For days there was nothing except at night the sounds of fighters jets patrolling the skies.

And by the way there are pictures of rains of people jumping from the towers. They've never been published because they are just too disturbing.

Very interesting, Gene. Point no. 4, in particular, blows me away.

SRH

Destroy ISIS: Yes! Obama made a grave mistake when he pulled all US troops out of Iraq to fulfill a campaign promise.

Destroy Islam: There's a clear difference between Japan and Islam. One is a nation; the other is a religion. Given the 1st amendment, it's problematic to declare war on a religion. And time for a reality check: The vast majority of those fighting Islamist terrorism and dying, or fleeing as refugees, are MUSLIMS. There's a war going on against Islamism WITHIN ISLAM. What we need to do is support those Muslims who oppose the cancer that exists within their religion. If we were to declare war on Islam, that would be playing right into the hands of the Islamists. That's exactly what they want us to do. It'd be a huge propaganda victory for them. We need to support the Afghans who believe their daughters ought to be able to go to school when the Taliban says they can't. Even conservative Muslim nations--like Saudi Arabia . . . and yes, even Iran . . . send their girls to school. The radicals are a minority within the world of Islam.

L: well said...

I appreciate the comments posted. I had a sister working across the street from the Trade Towers and it was days before we heard from her. My family was sweating blood worrying about her. She couldn't live in her apart. for months until the area and her apart. were cleaned.

Argo, I well remember the facts you posted except for what your wife experienced. Someone gave me a DVD showing the poor people jumping from the Towers rather than burn alive. I could only watch it once and it is an indelible memory. A friend of mine witnessed the plane fly into the Pentagon. I burn with rage thinking about those miserable cowards who did this.

L. Brown, we did not fight just nations in WWII. Japan and Germany were run by what can only be described as a religion. The Japanese resurrected Bushido and it became a religious ideology that permeated every level of Japanese society. I have known Germans who grew up under Hitler and believe me, Hitler was worshiped by most Germans. The ones still living still believe in him and his twisted cerebral flatulence. The Americans also de-nazified the Germans trying to expunge the vile religion of Nazism.

The first thing the Moslems do when they come to my area is provide a mosque and a madrassa and teach their children Arabic. This is not assimilation. When my wife's family immigrated from Europe, not one of them went to a school to learn their native language. They knew they were in a much better place and wanted to leave the old life in Europe. Her grandfather joined the National Guard to prove his love for his new country.

Wednesday on Fox, Dana Perino beautifully stated that the effort on flight 93 was the first return strike in the war against terrorism.

That was then. How about now? Western intelligence was in a mess 9/11, and is more perilous today, according to all the evidence. From the way it's going, extreme partisanship, nationalism and populism will turn the West into another authoritarianism as radical as those we despise. No one is talking about democracy in crisis. Xi and Vlad must be pleased.

Why would I want to aid a "Religion" whose goal is to destroy mine?
A lot of people need to realize that Radical Terrorists are the ones actually practicing the teachings of Mohammad. His aim for "HIS" religion was to destroy Judaism & Christianity.

As clear as the memories of 9/11 are to many, you have a clear effort to minimize what happen and who did it. Yesterday the New York Times posted a headline about planes aimed at the towers. Planes don’t aim themselves. And if any American in congress had stood up and stated something happened December 7 at Pearl Harbor by somebody they would not have been able to get off the floor before the sky and roof both fell on them. In 20 years the facts will be So muddied that most will not care and to me that is a sin to be so stupid.

98% of the Muslims in this world are not terrorist's but 98% of the terrorist's in this world are Muslims
a bit over simplistic but yo get the point.

I spent 4 years worth of my life in those two shit holes dealing with that culture. The left embraces their culture. No one talks about the way they treat children. Pedophilia is very common. Rape, abuse, slavery. Parents sell their children into slavery or servitude. Until you have walked that ground, all the books tourist sites and internet knowledge is almost useless to understand what exists there. and then once you see that, you can start to understand what is going on.

Nothing can justify what the Muslim terrorist's did on 9-11; NOTHING!!!
Until the West understands that you must fight any war with them the same way they fight their wars, we are doomed to what we have been doing, fighting a war for a year x 18 years.

Re: Assimilation. I see nothing wrong with immigrants retaining the language they brought with them, and teaching it to their children . . . as long as they also learn English. During WWI, many states had laws that made it illegal to speak German. Apparently no one bothered to consider the fact that maybe--just maybe--having some native speakers of German in the military might come in handy when we capture Hans and Fritz and want to ask them some questions.

As for Muslims and their value to our side in this conflict, I submit the following from Feb 02 and the start of Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan . . . from the viewpoint of our Special Operations forces:

"As they neared the entrance to Peanut valley, their interpreter, an Afghan . . . announced that there were "two Al Qaeda bases up the valley and the AQ were watching them at that time." To the Americans, the locals' ability to determine Al Qaeda at a distance and by location was sometimes uncanny. When Kris asked the Afghan how he could distinguish local Afghans from foreigners like Al Qaeda, he said: "It's easy, and I can tell from one kilometer away by the way they act, look, and walk." This ability was proved time and again, and once saved a Special Forces patrol when he correctly identified, specifically, Chechens and Uzbeks at a distance and prevented them from being ambushed."

That's from a book entitled "Alone at Dawn", which focuses on the Combat Controllers: the Air Force Special Operations personnel who mark targets and call in the close air support our forces (and those of our allies) have counted on to save their lives in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. (And before that, in Southeast Asia.)

That's the value of the "terps" who work with our forces in the Muslim world . . . literally thousands of whom have earned their way to this country under special immigrant visa programs. But are currently stuck in the pipeline--after putting their lives on the line for our men and women in uniform--because of requirements for additional "vetting". The vetting they've already undergone to EARN those special visas is very extensive.

Brian, I appreciate your views. I've also spent significant time in the Muslim world . . . much of it working with Muslims who were reporting intelligence of value to us. Before I went overseas, I was working on Libya from CIA HQ shortly after Qadhafi took over. We had managed to exfiltrate a number of our Libyan agents who were in obvious danger once the government changed hands. We brought them to the states and aided in resettling them. Fortunately, we didn't have to worry about special visas, because CIA has the authority to bring in a certain number of foreign nationals annually without all the red tape. The military credo of leaving no one behind, in my view, should apply equally to those Muslims who've risked their own lives, and those of their families, to help us. If we want allies anywhere in the world--and it's beyond difficult working abroad if you don't speak the language and don't understand the culture--then they need to know that they can count on us. Following the war in Southeast Asia, we brought a large number of Hmongs and Vietnamese to this country. My hometown has a large number of Bosnians (Muslims), who came here after our military intervened to keep them from being slaughtered by their Christian Serb and Croat neighbors. It sometimes turns out that the good guys aren't necessarily those who go to the same church we do. They might well be those who go to a mosque.

Miller, I'd leave it to the Muslims to define who's "actually practicing the teachings of Mohammed". Think on this: The Taliban in Afghanistan will not allow girls to go to school. Yet in very conservative Muslim countries--Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shia Iran--girls are allowed to go to school. Those Muslims who believe otherwise, like the Taliban, are in a distinct minority . . . as are the radical terrorists as a whole. Were that not the case, they'd be in charge in the Muslim world. Which they're not.

Can they go to church, say a Hail Mary or Our Father...go to a soccer game?

#bluegirl

I generally find the truth to be somewhere in or close to the middle.


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Aboot another month, eh, King. Go Wings!

I understand all about cultural understanding. I was very cognizant of that , especially my last tour when Green on Blue events increased by 1000% in the last year I was there. I get all that.
but they aren't the pillars of virtue and purity and enlightenment that the left/media portray them.
Yes, there are many Muslims that want to get along, but the ones that don't; they have no qualms about doing whatever it takes to destroy the west. they always will be that way.
I had some great terps working for me, and I assisted in getting them here because they and their families were targeted for death because they assisted the infidels. so I get that too.
I have been to this rodeo a number of times and I have my opinions and beliefs based on my experiences, and others have their own. And they may not be the same.

this is complicated...but once the japs an krauts surrendered, did that make the survivors less racist and prejudiced against those that did not share their ethnic and cultural backgrounds? i think not...many germans and japanese are still master racist who still believe that they are somewhat superior to the rest of us who do not share their genes...

muslims, like other religious groups come in all colors, shapes and sizes...fanatical muslims use their religion as an excuse to hate and kill those they fear...and that is what it's really all about, as always, hate and fear...that someone more powerful and ruthless than them will come along and steal their wealth and destroy their culture, which is the product of their power...

learn about the religious wars in europe between catholic and protestant...

and go back before that and learn about the crusades...if i was a muslim, with roots in the middle east, you can be damn sure that i would be suspicious of all so called christians and their motives...

According to Pew Research, based on world wide polls, roughly 10% of Muslims fully and enthusiastically support the terrorist actions against The West.

10% !!!

That's around 180 million people.

It's not some fringe.

The same polls suggest that up to an additional 45% tacitly approve of the anti west sentiment espoused by the vocal 10%.

That's another 800 million people.

Tell me again about this fringe group of Muslims????

What a crock!

James, more than half of the Conservative Party of Canada voted for bona fide right-winger Bernier for leader until the 13th ballot went to Scheer. The CPC is not a right-wing party. More than half the US electorate voted Democrat but the president says he's a Republican. Remember what Dief said about polls!

Get a copy of the Koran & study it. You'll find out who is following Mohammad's teaching. IF I did not agree with the basics of what by Religion was based on, I Would Get Out of it. If I did not believe that I should force all Jews & Christians to convert to Islam or Kill them (Which I don't) I would not be a Muslim (Which I am Not).

It's a crying shame that in our public school system we cannot quote the Bible or Say a Prayer in the name of Jesus, but our Children & Grandchildren are Taught Islam in the classrooms.

I don’t quite buy you equivocation. There were a bunch of US troops, post WWII, that occupied Germany and Japan by manning small communication outposts. I’m sure there were exceptions, but very few of the troops felt threatened. More than a bunch of them came home with wives, not ied souvenirs.

craig, ah dont quite equivocate yo response to mah e quiv o cation...

What has this got to do with Muslims and their support of terrorizing the West?

Just that the two polls of public opinion I mentioned related little to reality. I'd expect Pew's percentage of Muslim hatred to be higher, considering the West's doctrine to invade preemptively and arbitrarily any country it believes inimical to the West's national interests. (And it does, often disastrously to itself and millions of others.) From posts here concerning the Second, I daresay 10 per cent of our forum's US members would take up arms against their own government to protect their gun rights. Are we angels and they devils?

Maybe, you seek polls that meet your expectations, eh?

Have you ever considered why there aren't polls of the percentage of western white hatred by, well you know who? I appreciate how you arbitrarily, yet preemptively push an agenda.

You're foolishly wrong about how ten percent of the participants here are itching to take up arms against some government boggie man. I'm of the opinion that red, white and blue Americans abide by the US Constitution and US law, and just value what is under attack, not what pew feels. Your side that wants to take, hypocritically does not value the rule of law, since law breaking is the sole tool for advancing fundamental change, eh?

And you're one of the kumbaya, I work with all sides kind of guy, but you characeterize jihadis as angels and Americans as devils? Who's drawing lines and picking sides? Now heck, if you value being a devil purely because of your ethnicity, well knock yourself out, but I'll pass.

I lived in Rabat, Morocco for 2 years. Big Catholic cathedral right in the middle of the city. Anyone could go to a soccer game. No burqas (nor even the veil) mandated for women. The only religious restriction I was aware of: No missionaries allowed.

Talk is cheap. Checking a box on a poll is even cheaper. If we were dealing with 800 million Muslims INVOLVED IN OR ACTIVELY SUPPORTING TERRORISM, it wouldn't look anything like the world we actually live in. The terrorists would be in charge of the Muslim world . . . which they clearly are not.

When Bin Laden declared war on the United States back in 1998, he stated in his fatwa that it was the duty of every Muslim, wherever they were, to kill Americans--however they could. Well, how's that worked out? After all, if you want to kill Americans, then the best place to be--the most target-rich environment--is obviously the USA. So . . . out of the several million Muslims living in the USA, how many of them either do that or attempt to do it? Hell, we have wacko all-American mass shooters who kill more people in a single event than are killed by Islamist terrorists in this country in an average YEAR. Looks pretty darned "fringy" to me. But then I was trained to look at what's actually happening, not at what polls show. And remember this about polls: If they were all that accurate, Hillary Clinton would be president.

Miller, you clearly do not understand Islam. Nor, apparently, the history of the Christian church. When the Jews were fleeing the Inquisition in Spain--when the Christian church gave them the choice of conversion or death--a lot of them ended up in the Muslim world. Where they were neither forced to convert, nor were they killed. Until relatively recently, there were fairly large Jewish communities in places like Morocco. They were required to pay a special tax and live in their own areas. Other than that, they were basically left alone. That only changed with the Zionist movement, the establishment of the modern state of Israel . . . and, in particular, the wars between Israel and neighboring Arab countries. The result of which was the relocation of most of those Jews--whose families had lived in peace in Muslim nations for centuries--to Israel or elsewhere.

Says our great hOly Muslim protector....

PS...When I see you brag about living with Muslims and then bragging about how your daughter was raised by Muslims I feel like going and throwing up.

How about editing your post King dOng....

I'm guessing the GIANT blank space in your post is caused from a moment of Joe Biden senility.

I wasn’t aware that you mentioned Morocco in your previous post.

https://www.africanews.com/2019/03/22/morocco-s-hidden-christians-to-push-for-religious-freedom/

Maybe things have changed since you lived there?


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Took a MacKinnon slap shot to the head, King? What’s up with all that space?

Tried to fix it, Joe. Sorry. I marked it senility.

It was late; didn't notice space when I sent it. All day chainsaw and replacing eight-foot posts in vineyard. Maybe my birthday party.

I wonder about the 10% or any significant percent of us who'd take up arms against our government. Angel or Devil? San Francisco says the NRA's a terrorist organization and the NRA has sued'em.

The city says the cold dead hands lingo is fighting words, I say hand'em over Mr. and Mrs. America is as well. Maybe the courts will answer the angel or devil question...Geo

Like most people interested in polls, I get a smile when they line-up with my opinions, and a frown when they don't. Seeking smiles, confirmation, no. Facts are more my spice of life.

Like most members, I'm here for information and entertainment, not to push an agenda, as you say. What members say about guns, shooting and their beliefs is interesting to me. I don't ascribe their views to an agenda. .

I learned as a teenager--in newsrooms--to assume nothing when reporting a story or of important issues. I've tried to be moderate and tolerant because I saw those who were useful and successful had those qualities.

You err with assumptions that I don't value the rule of law, that I'm pushing an agenda, that I characterize jihadis as angels and Americans as devils. I believe our great neighbour is witnessing the biggest con job in its history.

An assumption, yes. What difference does it make? Yours or mine? Stardust.

I have an agenda. It involves doing what I'm able to do to protect the 1st and 2nd amendments to the US Constitution, both of which seem to be under attack in America today.

I'll not be easily PC'ed into changing my manner of speech or stop expressing my opinions, and I'll vote as many times as possible to prevent any infringement to my right to bear arms. Take up arms against my government? Nah, probably not, but I'll sure give'em a good cussing til the day I die...Geo

Larry;
Just maybe I understand a bit more about " Christianity" than you do.
Jesus, The Son of God, made it perfectly clear in his word that Christianity was not to be spread by "Force" but by Teaching.
That deal with the Spanish inquisition was by people "Claiming Christianity", but it was "NOT CHRISTIAN".

Give me one good reason why WE should muslims to spread their Doctrine in our Country when they will not "Allow Missionaries in theirs.

Yea, I know, the Constitution. So, why have our courts outlawed any mention of Christianity in public places, yet allowed Muslim things to Flourish.

Well Miller . . . the Muslims who send their daughters to school would point out that neither the Koran nor the sayings of Mohammed include anything saying they shouldn't do that. So . . . to paraphrase what you said . . . those radical Islamists like the Taliban are claiming Islam, but it's not Islam.

And I somehow doubt that Islam is going to win many converts in our country. The only significant increase will come from immigrants. But we show our belief in freedom of religion by allowing those of any faith to proselytize in this country.

The founding fathers were intelligent enough to keep religion out of the public sphere (via the First Amendment) while protecting it in the private sphere. Maybe you can give me an example of verses from the Koran being posted in a government building while verses from the Bible are banned. Matter of fact, I worked in a government building, and walked right by a verse from the Bible every day: "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." John 8:32. Right in plain sight, in the lobby of the CIA Headquarters. Have you heard that they had to remove it???

Can the courts settle these things, Geo? Law represents the will of the people. Without the will, we're back to "the dead letter of the law."

Clearly, the NRA is not a terrorist organization. Publics may disagree with it as we seem to do with everything else but saying it doesn't make it so.

One of the most difficult issues with reporting, whether in the Deep South of the 60s or overseas today, is determining who are the good guys and bad guys.

You indicate accurately there's a lot of in-between.

Larry;
First I have not mentioned anything about girls & schools, that was someone else.

Our Constitution stated we would have "No Mandated" religion (my words) nothing else. A lot of our forefathers were fleeing England & The Continent to get away from mandated religion of the Catholic Church &/or The Church of England/Anglican/Episcopalian.

When I was in school we had a daily Bible Reading, that is no longer allowed. This was NOT Unconstitutional in spite of liberal court rulings. I do not know about everywhere, but I do know in TN no teacher is allowed to read from the Bible, but courses are taught on Islam. IF one is supposed to violate the constitution, why does not the other??

Many years ago I bought a copy of the Koran & read it. Mostly ramblings of a "MAD MAN". I think I still have it somewhere, but cannot just lay my hands on it without a search. So at present, I cannot cite Book, Chapter & Verse, or however it is arranged, do not recall exactly now. I do know for a fact that Mahammad promoted "Violence" to "Force" other religions to become Muslims.

This type of action is "NOT" a part of true Christianity.

Miller, apparently you're missing the point I'm making. You're talking about the radicals preaching true Islam. Using the example of the Taliban, which prohibits girls from going to school (which they in fact do most places in the Muslim world, including conservative nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran), my point is: that action is NOT part of true Islam.

And whether it was true Christianity or not, it didn't make too much difference to the Jews who fled Spain during the Inquisition when given the choice of conversion or death. It was the Catholic church of Spain. Fortunately for some of them, Morocco was only a short boat ride away. And before long, both Catholics--and later Protestants--were holding witch trials. None of which is "true Christianity" as I understand it. Nor was it--in much more recent times--when Irish Catholics and Protestants killed each other. Nor when Orthodox Serbs and Catholic Croats killed each other in the former Yugoslavia. But all of that looks a whole lot like Muslims killing each other because they're not "true Muslims", doesn't it? Even though the Koran expressly prohibits killing brother Muslims. The way they get around that: get the local mullah to declare that the Muslims they want to kill are guilty of apostasy. So they're not true Muslims.

As for your Bible reading, we didn't have any of that when I was in school. Although there was a Bible Club with a faculty sponsor that met after school. Teaching a course on religion, I'm sure, would pass muster if it were to include both Christianity and Islam, as well as other religions. The difference comes when it's an attempt to indoctrinate someone into a particular religion. That's the business of schools run by various religious orders, not of public schools.

Aaah yesss- oh-mighty King of Da North. Stardust- written in 1928 at Indiana U by Hoagy Carmichael, lyrics by his frat brother Mitchell Parrish- a Classic- like the movie "Casablanca" Thanks for mentioning it in your post--Foxy

"Cold, dead hands= fightin' words- right spot on- no one, even Wayne LaPierre or Lt. Col. "Olly" North fought harder than the late Charlton Heston did for our 2nd amendment rights to own and bear arms-in defense of: ourselves, our families, our Country. Too bad we couldn't have him as an actor turned POTUS- like Ronnie Reagan only with a Winchester in his live, warm hands. RWTF..

Larry, one of the reasons why we don't hear about Islamists killing westerners, is because here and in the US, there is active suppression of the information about, and true motives of, numerous mass killers. The suppression is active by our goverments for sure and aided by a remarkably compliant media.

Take for example the mass shooting last summer in Toronto. Committed by a 20 something Muslim male. His brother, who the shooter was admittedly highly influenced by, was found with 42 kilograms (close to 90 pounds) of the opioid carfentanil. A drug 100 times more powerful than fentanyl.

To put that quantity in perspective, it's enough to kill 100 million people!

This is no street drug dealer.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4353028/danforth-shooter-older-brother-coma-charges/

And yet there is the pretense there was no national security issue. I have more examples but you get the drift. It's our governments' skills and their general incompetence that has saved our bacon, not a lack of threat.

It seems that in my entire lifetime, the wars between Israel and their Arab neighbors have resulted from escalating Arab attacks upon the state of Israel. The 1967 war was a preemptive attack made by Israel resulting from Arab threats to wipe out Israel. We have not seen Israel making unprovoked missile or mortar attacks on their Arab neighbors. Nor have we seen Israeli suicide bombers and Israeli terrorists going into their neighboring Arab countries and targeting innocent civilians.

Note the part in the QUOTE above where Larry Clown acts as if taxing and segregating Jews, before killing them and otherwise forcing them out, was reasonable and acceptable. Would Larry think it was OK for nations to have a special tax for Muslims, and to segregate them and make them live in their own areas???

Larry will not talk about the large number of Christians and Christian Churches that have been forced out of Muslim countries in recent years. Larry thinks that Muslims should be welcomed into predominately Christian countries, but he will not tell you how many of them restrict or ban the practice of Christianity.

Larry Clown is a sick Muslim sympathizer who has spent a great deal of time here and on other forums looking for any possible means to excuse the atrocities perpetrated and supported by his Muslim friends.

Canvasback, I don't know enough about "the media" in Canada to comment. But "the media" in the United States is hardly "compliant". That might have worked back in ancient times when there were only 3 TV networks. Not now, with a whole bunch of other networks. Not to mention all the Internet news sources.

And while your guy was caught with a whole bunch of opioids, the only way they're going to kill anyone is if people take them. It's not like he's got a nuke in his garage and all he has to do is detonate it.

When Islamists manage to kill people in this country, we do hear about it. When the govt stops them before they can do it, we also hear about that. But I look at the millions of Muslims in this country and the relatively small number of people who've been killed by Islamist terrorists in the US since 9/11. I think it took the Orlando nightclub shooter's body count to move the total number of deaths in the US from Islamist terrorists ahead of Tim McVeigh's score from one attack in Oklahoma City.

While we need to remain extremely vigilant to the Islamist terrorist threat, we can also count ourselves very lucky that it's mostly in places other than the United States. And by a significant margin, most of those killed by Muslims are . . . OTHER MUSLIMS.

So which is it, better to be lucky or the need to remain extremely vigilant? Isn't it more difficult to claim there is a need for anything, when there is an intentional effort to downplay it? Aren't the comments that you downplay just efforts to be vigilant?

We 'discuss' policy of a small group from which a challenger will arise to oppose the current President. What reason was given by the dnc for the network 'news' agency that was selected to 'host' the debates? Are you saying that internet searches are the equivalent of your reasoning decisions? Is it looking like dominant search and social media, 'news' sources, are increasingly facing legal scrutiny for bias?

Just for curiousity, why are 'they' Muslims to you and not Americans? Is that particular group given an exemption from the 'separation of state' war against Christian religion? Does the intel quantify how much money is raised by Muslims in America that ends up funding overseas terrorism and military operations against US troops? Do we need to be extremely vigilant, or do we throw that in for the appearance of wisdom and balance?

Craig, when you're playing defense--which is what you're doing when you're trying to prevent mass shootings of any kind--you certainly need to be vigilant. But why would you suggest that there's anything wrong with being lucky? What's bad is counting on luck and not being vigilant.

As for the rest of your babbling, I'm not quite sure how many different tracks you're trying to run your trains on. "Muslim" defines them by religion. "American" defines them by nationality. If it's Islamist terrorists we're concerned with in this country, with the exception of 9/11, most of the Islamist terrorist attacks have been carried out by American Muslims. But given that Bin Laden declared war on America over 20 years ago, and said it was the duty of Muslims to kill Americans, wherever and however they could do so . . .then it seems to me quite clear that the vast majority of American Muslims didn't buy into his message. We all know it's not that hard to acquire guns in this country. If a lot of American Muslims were following Bin Laden's guidance, then it seems to me we'd be hearing reports of American Muslims committing attacks pretty much every day. There are, after all, millions of them available to do it.

As for the comment about Muslims in this country raising money to fund overseas terrorism . . . yes, that happens. And it happens to be a crime, and a number of them have been caught, put on trial, and gone to prison for doing it. "Follow the money" is a very effective way to track terrorists and those who support them. Did you think that someone who worked in counterintelligence and counterterrorism would be unaware of that, Craig? That's so basic that it's like kindergarten stuff. You need to try harder if you're going to tell us (including other well-informed people here) things we aren't well aware of.

But you will have to explain to me what you mean by news sources facing legal scrutiny for bias. If there were a law against bias, then it would be illegal for media outlets to publish editorials and opinion pieces. And certainly illegal for them to state which candidate they're backing in an election. Obvious bias there, right?

Keith that's because Larry the Clown is a Muslim sympathizer.

All news reporting, regardless of the medium used, is biased. Always has been, always will be.RWTF

It's the shotgun approach Larry.

I think vigilant means to profile. You say switch on a condescending tone, and start dismissing and equivocating. It's the old kindergarten joke about the silver haired white granny getting pulled out of line at the airport for a cavity search.

When you say follow the money, are you saying the tiny handful that are prosecuted had only sent proven personal money? Or, does the money come from many thousands more smaller donors? Here's your tactic, 'seems' to me like all that happens is a vacuum is formed at the top of a large pyramid, and the majority of the pyramid seeks a means elsewhere.

You said the only possible 'news' bias is some long gone era of three networks. Since you offered that the internet is a news source, I shouldn't have to explain, permissible up to this point, bias in search. Or, are you saying it's difficult to find news that isn't served up on a silver platter?

Craig, the problem with profiling is that the cops can get themselves into trouble for doing it. Yet think on this: You end up dead. Victim of a murder. Who's the first person the cops look at, assuming you're married? Your wife. So they do profile. But they have to be cautious about it.

But since you've mentioned it . . . people who work counterterrorism and counterintelligence profile all the time. You've got a suspicion that there's a spy in your office. If someone all of a sudden seems to be spending money right and left, you think maybe the Russians hooked that guy. They mostly buy their spies. Long gone are the days when American Commies would spy for the Communist USSR based on ideology. But if you happen to have a Chinese American in your office, or someone who's spent significant time in China, you might think maybe it's a Chinese spy . . . because those are the kinds of people they target. So rest easy. Profiling is alive and well. Can't speak for the TSA . . . but you never know what Granny might be packing. Maybe she's carrying a package her nice Muslim neighbor gave her . . .to deliver wherever she's going.

Wherever the money comes from, if the feds smell a rat, they'll follow ALL the rats. The only problem is this: Proving that the small donors were aware that they money they think they were donating to widows and orphans in Palestine was really going to Hamas. Or to whatever terrorist group. Which is why it's often easier to get the big fish if he's the final link in the chain.

As for bias: I'm still not sure what your point is. Biased news isn't illegal. What the Internet has done is put a profusion of electronic versions of The Enquirer at our fingertips. Used to be you could only get that in the supermarket checkout line. But you have bias from BOTH DIRECTIONS. Pretty much whatever your political opinion, you can find it both supported and attacked on the Net. Result: People tend to gravitate to media outlets that have the same bias that they do. And they're not very diligent about fact checking.

Thanks for taking the time to respond Larry, you read quite differently than your usual all is kumbaya, nothing to see here move along, we're all just friends.

Your small donor comment raises two thoughts, for me. One is that how come regular Americans can't get a pass for criminal behavior by just claiming ignorance of the law? Why not stick all the names of the small fish in a hat and randomly pull out a few thousand of them to prosecute with the big fish? Wouldn't that make all small fish think twice and do their due diligence before, let's say speeding, or jaywalking, or illegally crossing the southern border, oops bad example?

The second thing that comes to mind is that maybe you are significatly understating the extent of Muslims in America support for world wide terrorist activities, because it's easier? When you choose to use the link in the chain analogy, you seem to be admitting to a larger problem, not a miniscule percentage of big fish.

As I see it, when you discuss bias, you seem to fall back into that equivocating mode. Nothing to see here, move on, eh? If you have the will to look, people aren't thought to gravitate towards their bias'. They are being conditioned to have someone else's bias.

It makes me sick to hear Larry attempt to equivocate Christian vs. Muslim atrocity. One would have to forget the 13 million plus killed by Tamerlane--a muslim convert, forget the annihilation of the churches in Turkey, across North Africa (where, in Fez, after slaughtering 40,000 old men, children, women and fighters, they dipped their hats in the blood, and the Fez has ever since been portrayed in red), all those slaughtered from the Balkans, through to Vienna, up through Spain and into middle France, slaving their way into Eastern Africa for 7 centuries before the west africans were preyed upon by the west, all the bloodshed between the Sunnis and the Shias in places like Algeria, all the incursion into the southern Philippines in the recent past, the slaughter of Christians in Albania to the tune of 1.5 million, the slaughter of Nigerian Christians by Boko Haram(also the slaughter of the rich wildlife in Central Africa where they are now encamped to feed their soldiers--investigate Burkina Faso), the slaughter of 500,000 middle eastern Christians by Isis, not to mention thousands of attempts by muslims to destabilize or overthrow governments once their internal numbers gave them confidence. And "peaceful" living under Muslim rule--you mean like paying half your income in a special tax that allows you to live in a muslim land as an infidel, having to keep your head lower than that of a muslim even if it means getting off your ride to do it, of outlawing stirrups, or having your churches burned and then having it be illegal to rebuild them because that would be "establishing a new church," being forbidden to be buried in a muslim cemetery, being run off, land and possessions taken, killed without any justice being served to the muslim aggressor, and a thousand other insults?
You are a liberal idiot of the first order! You should study your own history, of which you are patently unworthy. The Trinity decision stated that this IS a Christian land, with Christian laws , and that it was never the court's intention to "lay Christianity prostrate at the feet of Mohamedism." There has been limited terrorist activity here because they are not numerous enough to start making trouble. But when their populace increases they will start the kind of trouble you see in Great Britain, pulling out the cleavers and carrying the most virulent signs in their demonstrations. Only a fool would overlook their centuries old game plan. Only the naive would forget the longstanding enmity we have endured at their hands from the days when the Pilgrim Fathers shiploads of furs back to England were ransacked and slaves made of the crew, to the piracy which led us to "the shores of Tripoli." Who made you an authority to say what is or is not "true Islam?" Maybe you should date the Koranic scriptures to ascertain which were latter and thereby abrogated the former. The terrorists are considered to be MORE CONSERVATIVE AND CONSECRATED. Which religious leader said to "love your enemies, and pray for those" Who said "Father, forgive them," "turn the other cheek" "love one another." And who said kill those who attack you, cut off the hands of those who steal from you, kill those who leave (the muslim) religion, kill those children who dishonor you, etc. I pray that no such damn fools, thinking themselves to be elite, will be in charge of our public policies. How about expanding your reading list, and getting informed?

Not equating anything, Steve. But you have to remember that Christianity has a 600 year head start on Islam . . . and we still find Christians killing members of other religions. Guess you forgot about CURRENT Balkan history . . . You know, when we had to send the US military to the former Yugoslavia to keep the Christian Serbs (and, to a lesser extent, the Christian Croats) from committing genocide on the Bosnian Muslims. Thousands of American men and women who wore our country's uniform can tell you about that one. You might even remember it, if your prejudice would allow you to see it.

And by the way, to find Christian preachers who praised the Orlando shooter--because, after all, his victims were gay--all you need to do is a bit of searching the Net. You'll find actual videos. Which does go to show that Christianity also has its radical lunatic fringe. Unfortunately. But hey, how long did it take Catholics to stop turning a blind eye to what their priests were doing? We keep on hearing more and more about that business too. And not in the Middle Ages, either.

Craig, we're not talking about ignorance of the LAW. We're talking about ignorance of the true purpose of their donations. Think on this one: that fine organization HSUS (Humane Society of the United States) which makes much of their anti-dog fighting campaign, in an attempt to solicit donations. So foolish people who love doggies send them money. What guarantee is there that the money will be used to stop dog fighting . . . as opposed to stopping ALL HUNTING, which HSUS also opposes?

My statement concerning Muslims in this country is based on FACT, Craig . . . not assumptions. We can do a body count on all Americans who've died in Islamist terrorist attacks in the last 20 years. And in doing so, something immediately jumps out at you . . . assuming your prejudices concerning Muslims don't interfere. Here's what Bin Laden told Muslims all over the world about their duty, when he declared war on the US back in 1998: His fatwa called for: "The murder of any American, anywhere on earth, as the individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it." Craig, that is very specific guidance. He's not calling on them to cheer when Americans die. He's not calling on them to support those who kill Americans. HE'S CALLING ON THEM TO KILL AMERICANS IF THEY CAN DO IT. Please explain to me what's so hard about killing Americans if you live in America. Piece of cake . . . as long as you're willing to die in the process . . . and that's good for a Muslim because he becomes a martyr.

So let's not talk about "little fish" who don't do what Bin Laden told them was their duty. Let's talk about the BIG fish who actually kill Americans . . . and, in this country--out of the millions of Muslims who live here, they turn out to be very few. Don't they? And as for the little fish . . . well, you've slipped into the assumption game, big time. And you know what happens when you ASS-U-ME?

My prejudice? Didn't we just get finished 'discussing' how you tip toe around your prejudices by embracing rebranded profiling? You admit to the roll of the little fish, without which the big fish can't fund a cup of coffee, yet you won't quite explain why there is no will to follow the money beyond the prejudices of how you depict intel decisions.

You appreciate examples? What would happen if a spec. counsel would be appointed to 'investigate'? There was a recent one that just disbanded, did they get get their big fish prize, or were the little fish beat down into pleading to process crimes. Did a thirty plus year distinguished General Officer lose his home, savings, anddo just that when his son was threaten?

Big fish bear responsibility, but they never kill, they have little fish do their bidding. Yes, I believe there're are just a handful of big fish, but without prejudice, why can't I ask about the reasoning to enable them through other links in the chain. If there're links in the chain, if there're little fish, then they are breaking the law, right?

Where did the trend toward Islamophobia come from in discussions of gun rights? A virulent strain appears here from time to time, as irrational as saying anyone voting Democrat is anti-gun. Canada's newest and fastest-growing gun lobby is partnering with Islamophobia groups. Media reports the new group splintered off from the National Firearms Association—Canada’s oldest gun lobby, dating from the 1970s—and has promised to act as a “sophisticated, disciplined,” nonpartisan voice promoting gun ownership, with a policy wish list that includes concealed handgun licensing, firearm-friendly self-defence laws, and the legalization of machine guns.

I do not find that labeling someone an Islamaphobe is conducive to a thoughtful and rational discussion of issues. It is an intellectually lazy method of argument.

Poor King... he really hates it when it is pointed out that there is no escaping the FACT that supporting and voting for Liberal Left anti-gun Democrats is in itself an anti-gun act.

Civil Rights would never have happened in this country if enough people did not support politicians who passed Civil Rights legislation. Same goes for Women's suffrage, i.e., the right of women to vote.

Of course, the majority of Democrats during those times voted against those rights. King will never admit that. And King will never admit that the vast majority of anti-gun laws and anti-gun judges have come as a result of people voting for and electing anti-gun Democrats.

Gun owners who support and vote for extreme anti-gunner are stabbing us all in the backs. They should not be accepted or embraced. They should be treated as anyone who would work to take away your Constitutional Rights and freedom. But working to undermine our 2nd Amendment Rights is King's mission here... and it shall be his legacy.

Going by King's past posts on the subject here, you can also bet that King opposes most of the gun rights proposals made by this new Canadian Gun Rights organization. And it would really bother King if they recognized the long term threat that is posed by an increasing Muslim presence in Canada. King is almost as good as his little brother Larry Clown when it comes to defending and excusing Islamic terror. King even lied to us and tried to tell us that Canada's Defense Minister Harjit Sajjan is a Muslim. He is, in fact, a Sikh.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

And I'm still wondering why King refuses to answer my question about the continuous free advertising that his liberal pal Stevie SKB does here.

King had accused me of cheating Dave Weber when I had a link to NRA Political Victory Fund in my tagline. He later accused me of cheating Dave when I had a small picture of Ronald Reagan toasting "Us Deplorables" in my tagline. He said I was cheating Dave by doing free advertising for the NRA and the Republican National Committee.

So why won't King address my repeated question about SKB's blatant and continuous advertising of his gunsmithing and gun importing businesses? Dave has posted his feeling on people who use his forum for self-promotion and profit. King knows of it and has accused me of it, even though my taglines never made a single penny for me. SKB Stevie also knows of it, and thinks he deserves special treatment.

Craig: Parlez-vous anglais? Vy govoritye po anglisky? What I "admit to" about the roll of the little fish is that it's darned hard to prove that they know they're funding terrorism . . . especially if the Big Fish helps them out by concealing the real purpose of his "Muslim charity". (Please reread about HSUS and their anti-dog fighting campaign.) Shut down the Big Fish, confiscate the money he was collecting, send him to prison. Problem solved.

You just gave an example of a special counsel who apparently didn't do what you think he should have done. (Of course he had access to material you have not seen . . . as in classified . . . and will never see.) So why would you suggest wasting money on another one? Sometimes, Craig, you do a wonderful job of contradicting yourself.

And chisel this one in stone, when it comes to financing terrorism: Tell me how you prove the little fish knew where their money was REALLY going. Let me try another example on you. I'm walking the streets of La Crosse, Wisconsin, training would-be counterintelligence agents how to follow people. I'm wearing a veteran's cap. A guy approaches me, tells me he's a fellow vet, he's broke, and can I give him $5 so he can get something to eat? Well, I say to myself, maybe he's going to spend it on food . . . but maybe he's going to drink his lunch. So I tell him I'll be glad to walk to McDonald's with him and buy him lunch. At which he walks away . . . and I determine that it wasn't food he was after. Only way I knew for sure . . . looking him in the eye and offering to buy him lunch. Same story with a charity, whether it's HSUS and dog fighting or Poor Widows and Orphans of Palestine. Those donors by mail can't do what I did. They have to take the charitable cause in question on good faith. And is proving a little fish who sent $20 to those orphans was aware that it was going to terrorists worth the effort of prosecuting him . . . when you solve the whole problem by shutting down the charity and throwing the big fish in jail? Why did we make it a much bigger deal when we whacked Bin Laden than when we took out any number of terrorist trigger pullers via drone strike or other means? Because Bin Laden was a much bigger fish and killing him had far greater ramifications than killing all those little fish. Kind like maybe if we'd been able to kill Hitler, we could have ended the war in Europe right there . . . instead of killing thousands of German soldiers (while costing us the lives of thousands of our own soldiers)?

And you're still dodging the issue of why hardly any of the millions of potential Muslim little fish in this country are paying attention to Bin Laden's VERY SPECIFIC GUIDANCE about killing Americans? That's pretty much proof positive that we just plain don't have very many dangerous Muslim little fish in this country.

Craig, I'm thinking that if we put you in charge of the drug war, you'd be focusing on all the little fish . . . every American in possession of just one joint. That'd be committing extensive resources to minor crimes rather than focusing on the big time dealers, especially of more addictive and more dangerous drugs.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...

This from full-bore patriot keith today on the 400th anniversary of slavery:

"Civil Rights would never have happened in this country if enough people did not support politicians who passed Civil Rights legislation. Same goes for Women's suffrage, i.e., the right of women to vote."

There's something to be proud. Salute to you, keith!

earliest reference to slavery i recall was many more centuries ago in egypt...pharaoh, let my people go...as in, "go down moses, way down in egypt's land...tell ol phaaa roe, let mah people go"...

Larry, I'm highly confident that you can come up with tons of examples of who knows what, but will you consider answering one question. How can I get one of those ignorance of the law free passes?

It's a fun exercise, what if I were king, not Brown, for a day. I'd probably get a little miffed if I thought investigators under me were blowing smoke up my... Quick question, is one joint still illegal or not? If it is, maybe I'd set up the equivalent meter maids and fund the whole department twenty-five bucks at a time by issuing a truckload of citations?

You're wrong that I'd ignore big fish or squander resources. I'd approach it from the philosophy that the poor little druggie is responsible for huge drains on our employers for lost time, our medical system for all manors of long term chronic disease treatment, and our sensibilities for the inability to make meaningful excuses. It would be my version of making 'em pay their fair share.

What would you do if you were head of a big intel agency? Please don't say you'd bury yourself in strategy and pr meetings.

I should have said US slavery, Ed, the free labour that built the country.

The United States was founded in 1776. The 13th Amendment was passed in 1865. Your constant anti-American propaganda is tiresome and monotonous. Perhaps you’d like to enlighten us on the history of slavery in Canada, where it was practiced for many years by your indigenous peoples, among others. But I don’t suppose you’d read about that in the NYT.

You really should try reading something else once in awhile Mr Brown. You might broaden your mind a bit.

Too bad you felt the need to edit out the part about how Democrats voted against women's suffrage and Civil Rights King.

But telling the truth for once would interfere with your agenda here, i.e., defending and supporting Liberal Left anti-gun Democrats.

Why do you have such a difficult time telling the truth King?

And why are you afraid to answer my questions about your pal SKB Stevie's continuous use of this forum for free advertising of his businesses?

Craig, how many times do I have to explain to you that it's NOT AN IGNORANCE OF THE LAW ISSUE? Charities lie to people all the time about how they spend their money. And you probably can't check the Palestinian Widows and Orphans Fund via Charity Navigator. (Did you know that you can't check the Clinton Foundation via Charity Navigator?)

You can shut down speeding in a hurry by putting a whole bunch of cops on the road and giving them awards for the ones who write the most tickets. The question is: Is it a good allocation of resources? How big do you want government to be? Same story chasing little fish who send money to support terrorism while thinking they're supporting widows and orphans. You catch the big fish, try "walking back the cat" on everyone who sent him money . . . but how many FBI counterterrorism agents would it take to make solid cases? And that's what the FBI is all about. They want proof that will stand up in court. And all you've got is proof that the little fish wrote a check to a charity. You don't have proof that the little fish knew the charity was a scam, covering up where the money was really going. HUGE waste of resources.

If I were running the FBI, here's the kind of little fish I'd be looking for: One who's admitted that she wants to shoot a whole bunch of people: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/teenage...k-47/ar-AAHr5fc She's a little fish who wants to become a big fish. Not an Islamist terrorist, but someone who's about to do what Bin Laden told Muslims was their duty: kill Americans. And that's the point you keep dodging. And by the way . . . "strategy" is very important. You only have X amount of resources (unless you've decided that you're a fan of much bigger govt than what we already have). And if I'm telling my counterterrorist people to focus on stopping attacks like Orlando before they happen, I'm thinking I've hit on the correct strategy.

You created a ridiculous scenario about making me boss of something or another, and I accepted it as fun. But, my citations idea seems to have hit on the correct strategy.

There are many examples of policy creating obscene numbers of little fish. Take the southern border, doesn't that prove that a revolving door processing policy has indeed come out of the endless strategy meetings? Based on those who use electronic payments, why not just send them all a computer generated letter saying they are subject to being investigated in a case related to big fish, so and so?

I can understand your speeding example, though. I had wondered why the entire nation had stopped issuing speeding tickets, such a waste of resources. Now that every big fish US car maker and importer has been shut down, has a vacuum been created for new big fish to swoop in? Speaking of quotas, are investigation and prosecution decisions made for safety or use or lose it or tic marks? Whoa Larry, I'm kidding, just wondering why policy never ever changes with the agendas of different admins.

Your last sentence, craig. Money. Money has no conscience.

Your post I responded to last night King... your dishonest editing job in order to create more of your FAKE NEWS demonstrates to us that you also have no conscience.

Why don't you want to admit that your precious Democrats in Congress voted against both Civil Rights and women's rights to vote?

I'd guess it's the same reason that you don't wish to acknowledge that your Liberal Left Democrats are behind virtually all efforts to weaken or eliminate our Gun Rights. Much of your life is devoted to supporting anti-gunners!

But if you ever admitted to that, then you'd be admitting to your very apparent Leftist Socialist agenda to undermine our 2nd Amendment and to denigrate our NRA.

Glad you see all of it so clearly, keith

What policy would be involved in creating little fish who donate money to support terrorism (knowingly or otherwise)? As for your computer generated letter to all donors who have been identified, here's what I'm guessing would happen: They'd likely all lawyer up (and probably succeed in obtaining pro bono legal support from the ACLU. Or maybe via CAIR.) The lawyer's response (in defense of Fatima in Detroit who donated to the Palestinian Widow and Orphans Charitable Fund) would likely read something like this:

"In response to your form letter of the (insert date): My client believed that her $20 donation was being used to assist Palestinian widows and orphans, as the name of the charity indicates. She is shocked to learn that the government is accusing the charity in question of financing terrorism. If the government has been aware for some time that the charity in question is indeed financing terrorism, then it would seem that the appropriate action on the part of the government would be to notify the public in general, and donors in particular, of the connection between the charity and terrorism. Our client--and we are assuming other clients who similarly made donations believing that the charity in question was genuine--had no way of knowing of the link to terrorism until she received your letter. We are fully prepared to defend our client's actions and are confident that the government will be unable to produce any evidence proving that she knew her money was being used for any purpose other than to assist Palestinian widows and orphans."

And you're suggesting that you want to allocate a swarm of FBI counterterrorism agents and a gaggle of federal prosecutors in an attempt to prove that Fatima and other donors knew--before the government informed them--that the charity was a front for terrorist funding? All in an attempt to catch a bunch of very small fish? Seems to me they'd be better targeted on little fish--like the girl who bragged about planning to shoot up her school--when it looks like they want to make the jump to becoming much bigger fish. By killing Americans, like the late Bin Laden told them was their duty.

Naw Larry, I don't think I've been suggesting any of that. I've been suggesting that you protest too much. Hey, resources aren't worth wasting, I understand. But, you are suggesting fix and forget. You are hung up on binladens marching orders, but you haven't acknowledged the speed and efficiency in which big fish are replaced with the infrastructure untouched.

Some muslim knucklehead was just charged with sabatoging a commercial airliner. Go figure, he didn't mean it, he just wanted the over time pay to repair it. Sounds like he has the same lawyer you do, and should get a pass, because he didn't know it could bring harm to anyone. God forbid his friends and family get a knock on the door, because they had no idea he was a small fish jihadi, eh?

Well gosh . . . why in the world would I be "hung up" on Bin Laden's marching order? How about because the topic we're discussing is 9/11--the anniversary of which we all just noted.

In this case, the Big Fish IS the infrastructure. You can't even go after the little fish until you catch the Big Fish . . . because he's the one who's collecting the bucks for the bad guys. And once more, you have decided to ASS-U-ME "infrastructure". You have decided to ASS-U-ME that those donating through Big Fish actually KNEW that they were supporting terrorism. You're starting off with a whole bunch of weak assumptions.

If small fish are at all smart (and fortunately, many of them are not--which is why they get caught before they become Big Fish), then they're not going to let friends and families know what they're doing. If they do, there's a good chance they'll get caught . . . and never get to the point of the Muslim who sabotaged the plane.

But once more--just to reemphasize: How can anyone dispute the fact that American Muslims simply aren't much of a threat when it comes to doing their Muslim duty--straight from the mouth of the man who proceeded to kill 3,0000+ Americans, just to make the point that he was serious about what he said was the duty of every Muslim everywhere? Since 9/11, only a miniscule number of American Muslims have made the decision--and followed through--to go from being a spectator small fish to a killer Big Fish.
Impossible to dispute that point. The evidence is clear.

Which is why you deflect and choose to make all sorts of unsupported assumptions about how maybe lots of American Muslims are little fish. Maybe most of them aren't fish at all . . . barring evidence that they're actually doing anything fishy.

Larry, you make valid points, but why can't I call you an a$$youmer and deflector?

You know I asked and you deflected, does significant funding for foreign soil terrorism, that has resulted in death and injury of US military soldiers, originate from the US. If you think no, fine.

You may continue to assyou anything you want, I am going to assume that the policy of pc, as demonstrated by your profiling tip toeing, clearly excuses selective ignorance of the law. Does it matter how many letters come from lawyers, isn't that their job?

Yes, in my mind, the 'infrastructure' of the culture that looks the other way when donating to the boys club of the plo does not vanish if a big fish gets arrested. We know that don't we, because the big fish are smart enough to go elsewhere if business isn't profitable enough. Hey, I'm going to be in MN soon, should I hang out in the mall of A. with a MAGA hat?

You're still avoiding the point I made. Pop quiz, Craig: What did the former Terrorist in Chief tell Muslims their duty in the war on America was? Choose one of the following:

a) Sit on the sidelines and be a cheerleader.
b) Just send a check.
c) Kill Americans, whenever and however you can.
d) None of the above.

The difference between my point and yours, Craig: We can count dead bodies on the streets of this country. And because the Islamist terrorists are always quick to take credit, we know who's responsible.

But while there's no question that funding for terrorism does come from this country, how do we know just how "significant" it is? We only know about the funding we succeed in interrupting. Or, if we happen to catch a terrorist accountant overseas and he happens to keep really accurate books . . . But since we stop it when we know about it, obviously we can't know how much we don't stop. Which puts us back in the assumption business, doesn't it?

And for some reason, the difference between "ignorance of the law" and "no way for the donor to know" (since the Big Fish doesn't name his charity "Dollars for Death to Americans") just plain does not seem to penetrate that rock hard cranium of yours.
The FBI won't take a case to court if they can't prove it. And if they can't come up with proof that Fatima in Detroit knew that the Palestinian Widows and Orphans Charitable Fund was a cover for money to support terrorism, then they have no case. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with ignorance of the law. Which is why it'd be a piece of cake for a lawyer to defend her . . . and why the FBI isn't ever going to get many of the little fish. And we're only assuming--again--that there are a lot of those little fish in the lake. But we only KNOW who they are when we catch the Big Fish who's collecting the Dollars for Death to Americans. And we still don't know whether they're guilty of anything. (See the above explanation, for the umpteenth time.)

Me, I prefer to stick with what we can prove. And whenever you feel like discussing something that's not based on assumptions--like how many people American Muslims kill in this country, which is rock solid--then we can talk about facts.

Hey- I picked C. Correct answer? Or did I follow the military mantra re: multiple choice ??sss-- "When In Doubt, Charlie Out!"RWTF

When ever I am approached by a "pan-handler" claiming to be a brother Vet "down on his luck"- I ask him a few questions re: 'Nam period in our history: (1) What was MACV?-- (2) How many doors on a Huey? (3 )What is a rubber Mama? and the finale-- (4) What position do you use when taking a piss at night "in country?" If they get any or all correct, I'll buy them a meal and coffee- but will Not give them any pocket cash, even brother Marines-- I can't tell you how many times I get approached, and I do not wear any Military or MAGA baseball caps- happened yesterday 19 Sept when Mae and I were over on the American side of the Niagara Falls- just left our vehicle and headed for the Maid of the Mist ramp, dude comes up, fairly well dressed for a tourist, clean shaven, asks me for some help- financially-- of course- I passed and we walked away. Life is full of surprises, best to always be prepared. RWTF

All Muslims are potential terrorist cell members--never ever forget that-- their belief in Allah and the Jihad is rock-solid, we are Infidels in their eyes, and their goal is world domination, same as Hitler sought in his years of terror. They will kill Christian and Jew with equal zeal-- and will sacrifice everything to achieve their goal of a entire world worshiping Allah. No exceptions-- RWTF

Well RWTF . . . you get the prize for the correct answer. But then you start to wander just a bit. Guess I ought to try another pop quiz:

In all the conflicts across the globe in which Muslims are involved, most of those being killed are members of which religion:

a)Christianity
b)Judaism
c)Buddhism
d)Islam

Hint to help you: Most of those conflicts are taking place in Muslim countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, etc.

RWTF you've lost it.

OK, I'll play. will pass the easy "Charlie and opt for D--which hope is the correct answer- as the more dead Islamics, the safer we Christians may become in the foreseeable future. RWTF..

So it seems that the fact that Muslims mostly kill scores of other Muslims in the name of their religion makes them worthy of Larry Clowns unceasing defense.

When it comes to rationality and clarity of thought, Foxy runs circles around Larry.

By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood,
And fired the shot heard round the world.
The foe long since in silence slept;
Alike the conqueror silent sleeps;
And Time the ruined bridge has swept
Down the dark stream which seaward creeps.
On this green bank, by this soft stream,
We set to-day a votive stone;
That memory may their deed redeem,
When, like our sires, our sons are gone.
Spirit, that made those heroes dare
To die, and leave their children free,
Bid Time and Nature gently spare
The shaft we raise to them and thee.

Let me see IF I have my history right. The British were coming to Lexington & Concord on a "Buy Back" mission to buy back the Assault Muskets the colonists had. These "Farmers" saw an opportunity to turn a little Cash so they gathered them up & carried them out of town to the Bridge to sell them "Back" to the Brits. They were, unknown to the Farmers, all loaded & someone carelessly let one of them go off & then more shooting started. Thus it would appear the Revolutionary was "More or Less" started Accidently.

King, Larry, Bill, et al is that the way y'all read the history of this event.

Lot of stories going around about that war, miller. Can we be sure it's not fake news?

If you had been the journalist covering those events King, then I would bet large money that is was Fake News. At any rate, I'm sure you would have been supportive of the Brit soldiers confiscation of civilian arms.

I started this thread with sincere and well meant wishes to the American people on the anniversary of 9/11.
I am amazed (well, aghast would be a better description) to see where it has ended up!
The only relevant contributions were on the very first page, as far as I can tell (without reading the rest too closely).
I'll probably not write anything again - you all know where I stand - so take my views as given without writing here.
Gunter
NRA Life 1974

Thank you, Gunter. The thought is appreciated and hasn’t gone unnoticed.

I’M a racist so let me take YOUR rights away. (Day O!!) Justin Trudeau

https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadas-lea...les-11569003875


__________________________
Off to the Tim Hortons labor camp with this wanker.